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#1
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Landings question
I am one of those people with ongoing intermittent landing problems. I
have good patches - managed to get solo recently - and then bad patches. The bad patches probably co-incide with forgetting to look up as I start the round-out, so there is no hold-off and a rather heavy landing, sometimes with a bounce. I've got my own ideas on how to address this, was curious if anyone else here has had the same problem and if so, how did you deal with it? Unfortunately I reckon I developed the bad habit fairly early in my flying, as it was well-established by the time someone pointed out what was going on. Since I seem to be reasonably good at doing what I'm told to do, via a route from ears to hands & feet that misses my brain, I suspect I've flattered to deceive in the front seat. |
#2
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Landings question
Sounds like you have identified the most likely cause. I tell students
to watch the spot on approach, then when it is in "point blank range" there is no need to look at it any more, and it's time to look at the other end of the runway. Tom Knauff has students stand near the runway and bend at the knees to simulate the last part of the landing hold-off. You look down the runway and note the perspective changes that are the cues you need to maintain a slow descent. For a comparison you can also look at the ground near your feet to see how ineffective this is. Cats wrote: I am one of those people with ongoing intermittent landing problems. I have good patches - managed to get solo recently - and then bad patches. The bad patches probably co-incide with forgetting to look up as I start the round-out, so there is no hold-off and a rather heavy landing, sometimes with a bounce. I've got my own ideas on how to address this, was curious if anyone else here has had the same problem and if so, how did you deal with it? Unfortunately I reckon I developed the bad habit fairly early in my flying, as it was well-established by the time someone pointed out what was going on. Since I seem to be reasonably good at doing what I'm told to do, via a route from ears to hands & feet that misses my brain, I suspect I've flattered to deceive in the front seat. |
#3
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Landings question
Cats wrote: I am one of those people with ongoing intermittent landing problems. I have good patches - managed to get solo recently - and then bad patches. The bad patches probably co-incide with forgetting to look up as I start the round-out, so there is no hold-off and a rather heavy landing, sometimes with a bounce. I have students sit in the glider while two other folks stand outside: one levels the wings, the other one stands at the tail. We then lift the tail to the pitch attitude that approximates approach speed to get a good feel for that sight picture. I ask the student to carefully pick some reference points and try to ingrain those in his/her mind. We then rotate to landing attitude and to the same. I really want the person to get the idea that they rotat to a certain attitude and then hold there while speed bleeds off. Obviously, this isn't perfect, since the rotation really needs to happen a little bit higher up (grin), but it does give the sense for the amount of pitch change required. Depending on the aircraft, the rotation can be pretty significant (e.g. a 2-33) or pretty subtle (e.g. a G103). I definitely agree that getting yourself to focus on a point in the distance (e.g. tree tops at the far end of the runway) makes this whole process easier. Whatever you do, spend some time on the ground in the airplane fooling around with this. Erik Mann LS8-18 P3 p.s. A good friend of mine did the same thing for me when I was trying to learn to fly taildraggers in a J3 Cub. It was really helpful to get a sense for the min and max pitch attitudes required. |
#4
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Landings question
"Cats" wrote in message ps.com... I am one of those people with ongoing intermittent landing problems. I have good patches - managed to get solo recently - and then bad patches. The bad patches probably co-incide with forgetting to look up as I start the round-out, so there is no hold-off and a rather heavy landing, sometimes with a bounce. I've got my own ideas on how to address this, was curious if anyone else here has had the same problem and if so, how did you deal with it? Unfortunately I reckon I developed the bad habit fairly early in my flying, as it was well-established by the time someone pointed out what was going on. Since I seem to be reasonably good at doing what I'm told to do, via a route from ears to hands & feet that misses my brain, I suspect I've flattered to deceive in the front seat. First, make sure your altimeter is accurately set before launch. Then, when on short final, carefully watch the altimeter instead of the runway. When at 5 feet AGL, push the stick forward all the way - - hard. While this method will not usually result in the smoothest of landings, whatever landings you do manage to accomplish, before being kicked out of your club or banished from the airfield, will all be pretty much consistent. all the best, bumper |
#5
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Landings question
bumper wrote:
First, make sure your altimeter is accurately set before launch. Then, when on short final, carefully watch the altimeter instead of the runway. When at 5 feet AGL, push the stick forward all the way - - hard. While this method will not usually result in the smoothest of landings, whatever landings you do manage to accomplish, before being kicked out of your club or banished from the airfield, will all be pretty much consistent. So, bumper, it started to rain on your way to the gliderport this morning? Then again, I must admit I have seen some landings that seem to have used the procedure you describe - fun to watch, especially it it's a G-103 being abused. Something about practicing no-spoiler landings... Cheers, Kirk 66 |
#6
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Landings question
Actually, this is not too far from what I was "taught" except that I
was told to watch the airspeed and fly the 2-33 right into the runway and up on the skid. It wasn't until I was preparing for my commercial checkride that I had an instructor actually teach me how to land. bumper wrote: First, make sure your altimeter is accurately set before launch. Then, when on short final, carefully watch the altimeter instead of the runway. When at 5 feet AGL, push the stick forward all the way - - hard. While this method will not usually result in the smoothest of landings, whatever landings you do manage to accomplish, before being kicked out of your club or banished from the airfield, will all be pretty much consistent. all the best, bumper |
#7
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Landings question
"Cats" wrote in message ps.com... I am one of those people with ongoing intermittent landing problems. I have good patches - managed to get solo recently - and then bad patches. The bad patches probably co-incide with forgetting to look up as I start the round-out, so there is no hold-off and a rather heavy landing, sometimes with a bounce. I've got my own ideas on how to address this, was curious if anyone else here has had the same problem and if so, how did you deal with it? Unfortunately I reckon I developed the bad habit fairly early in my flying, as it was well-established by the time someone pointed out what was going on. Since I seem to be reasonably good at doing what I'm told to do, via a route from ears to hands & feet that misses my brain, I suspect I've flattered to deceive in the front seat. I am not a CFI or CFIG so claim no authority, but/and can only comment on what worked for me. It is said by many that the route to good landings is practice, practice, practice. The key is not to keep practicing your mistakes. Learning to land in gliders is difficult because it is hard (and expensive) to do enough of them. Tows are expensive and we seldom make more than a small number of landings in a training day. IMHE the best way to learn to land is with a GOOD CFI, in a light tailwheel aircraft and at a small quiet airport. This will allow you to make many landings in an hour and is much more cost and time effective than purchasing tows. Gliders require ground crews for assistance and it is hard to get more than 4 landings /hr. An aircraft needs no assistance and can easily make 12 or more landings in an hour, and the cost per landing will be a small fraction of the cost of gliders + tows. A winch will change the economics but I suspect that the powered aircraft will still be much cheaper. My personal favorite trainer is the Citabria but the quality and experience of the CFI is much more important than the choice of aircraft. All students do not have identical learning styles. Some wish only to memorize the mechanics and procedures, while others require a deeper understanding of why the procedures function. The penny dropped for me (after hundreds of just fair landings) after I learned the math and I could understand WHY the flair required that the AOA be increased at a smooth accelerating RATE as the aircraft slows in the holdoff (hint, think about the Vsquared part of the lift formula), in order to allow the increasing drag to bleed off speed and energy . There is a lot going on in the roundout and again as an aircraft gets close to quitting to fly and the control feedback (pressures) and visual perception becomes quite subtle. IMHO, It is our job as pilots to place the aircraft at the right location and speed (energy) and altitude and with the right attitude so that the aircraft can decide when it wants to stop flying and land. Happy landings to all, |
#8
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Landings question
This was my experience also. I think the instructors were trying to reduce
the rollout so they did not need to push back as far. We did spend a lot of time replacing worn skids. "Doug Haluza" wrote in message ups.com... Actually, this is not too far from what I was "taught" except that I was told to watch the airspeed and fly the 2-33 right into the runway and up on the skid. It wasn't until I was preparing for my commercial checkride that I had an instructor actually teach me how to land. bumper wrote: First, make sure your altimeter is accurately set before launch. Then, when on short final, carefully watch the altimeter instead of the runway. When at 5 feet AGL, push the stick forward all the way - - hard. While this method will not usually result in the smoothest of landings, whatever landings you do manage to accomplish, before being kicked out of your club or banished from the airfield, will all be pretty much consistent. all the best, bumper |
#9
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Landings question
A couple of possibilities come to mind. Do you think one of these applies?
1. Rounding out too late, and therefore hitting the ground before achieving a level attitude 2. Rounding out OK but raising the nose too much, then losing speed and stalling, resulting in a short drop to the ground? I've noticed a couple of times recently that I got distracted after rounding out OK (perhaps by needing to correct my direction or to level my wings) and let my speed get too low. That causes a stall at just a foot or half-foot above the ground, leading to a bump onto the ground. "Cats" wrote in message ps.com... I am one of those people with ongoing intermittent landing problems. I have good patches - managed to get solo recently - and then bad patches. The bad patches probably co-incide with forgetting to look up as I start the round-out, so there is no hold-off and a rather heavy landing, sometimes with a bounce. I've got my own ideas on how to address this, was curious if anyone else here has had the same problem and if so, how did you deal with it? Unfortunately I reckon I developed the bad habit fairly early in my flying, as it was well-established by the time someone pointed out what was going on. Since I seem to be reasonably good at doing what I'm told to do, via a route from ears to hands & feet that misses my brain, I suspect I've flattered to deceive in the front seat. |
#10
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Landings question
My worst landing ever was caused by being too fast when I flaired and then
failing to use the spoilers to help drain energy. I ended up with some pretty serious PIO and a number of hard bounces. Mike Schumann "Roger Worden" wrote in message . net... A couple of possibilities come to mind. Do you think one of these applies? 1. Rounding out too late, and therefore hitting the ground before achieving a level attitude 2. Rounding out OK but raising the nose too much, then losing speed and stalling, resulting in a short drop to the ground? I've noticed a couple of times recently that I got distracted after rounding out OK (perhaps by needing to correct my direction or to level my wings) and let my speed get too low. That causes a stall at just a foot or half-foot above the ground, leading to a bump onto the ground. "Cats" wrote in message ps.com... I am one of those people with ongoing intermittent landing problems. I have good patches - managed to get solo recently - and then bad patches. The bad patches probably co-incide with forgetting to look up as I start the round-out, so there is no hold-off and a rather heavy landing, sometimes with a bounce. I've got my own ideas on how to address this, was curious if anyone else here has had the same problem and if so, how did you deal with it? Unfortunately I reckon I developed the bad habit fairly early in my flying, as it was well-established by the time someone pointed out what was going on. Since I seem to be reasonably good at doing what I'm told to do, via a route from ears to hands & feet that misses my brain, I suspect I've flattered to deceive in the front seat. |
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