When does IFR begin in VFR?

Wizard of Draws wrote:

Craft is not exactly correct since I got the transponder code first. It was
a monkey wrench that I didn't really expect since I normally get clearance
on the ground in CRAFT order. It's been quite a while since I opened a plan
in the air and 3 months since I've flown at all. A lot of rust to work off.

I think you didn't get the information in CRAFT order because you were not being
issued a clearance, just a VFR squawk.

Dave Butler wrote:
I think you didn't get the information in CRAFT order because you
were not being issued a clearance, just a VFR squawk.

Actually, he did get it in CRAFT order. On any given transmission,
any or all of the elements are optional, but the ones that are given
will be in the right order. In this case, the only one included was
the T, and it was in the right order :-)

If you listen closely, you'll notice the pattern on every controller
transmission, even for trivial things:

"left on charlie, ground point eight" (route, frequency)

"cleared for takeoff, fly runway heading" (clearance limit, route)

"make a left downwind for 34, contact tower 118.57" (route, frequency)

The one exception I can think of is "Squawk VFR, frequency change
approved".

Roy Smith wrote:

If you listen closely, you'll notice the pattern on every controller
transmission, even for trivial things:

Quite so. Interesting. Thanks for pointing that out, Roy.

The squawk was an IFR squawk. There's a difference. A VFR one won't
give controllers a low altitude alert, an IFR squawk will.



Dave Butler wrote:
Wizard of Draws wrote:

Craft is not exactly correct since I got the transponder code first.
It was
a monkey wrench that I didn't really expect since I normally get
clearance
on the ground in CRAFT order. It's been quite a while since I opened a
plan
in the air and 3 months since I've flown at all. A lot of rust to work
off.


I think you didn't get the information in CRAFT order because you were
not being issued a clearance, just a VFR squawk.

On a takeoff clearance the last thing that should be said is cleared for
takeoff.



Roy Smith wrote:

Dave Butler wrote:

I think you didn't get the information in CRAFT order because you
were not being issued a clearance, just a VFR squawk.


Actually, he did get it in CRAFT order. On any given transmission,
any or all of the elements are optional, but the ones that are given
will be in the right order. In this case, the only one included was
the T, and it was in the right order :-)

If you listen closely, you'll notice the pattern on every controller
transmission, even for trivial things:

"left on charlie, ground point eight" (route, frequency)

"cleared for takeoff, fly runway heading" (clearance limit, route)

"make a left downwind for 34, contact tower 118.57" (route, frequency)

The one exception I can think of is "Squawk VFR, frequency change
approved".

Newps wrote:
The squawk was an IFR squawk. There's a difference. A VFR one won't
give controllers a low altitude alert, an IFR squawk will.

How do you know it was an IFR squawk?

A VFR one won't give controllers a low altitude alert, an IFR squawk will.

By VFR squawk do you mean just 1200, or do you mean any of a set of
codes which ATC tags as not an IFR aircraft?

Jose
--
Nothing is more powerful than a commercial interest.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

On 2/8/05 8:20 AM, in article ,
"Roy Smith" wrote:

Wizard of Draws wrote:
Craft is not exactly correct since I got the transponder code first.

It sounds like things happened in two chunks. Within a single call, the
elements will (or at least should be) in CRAFT order, but you had it broken
up into two parts.

First, he gave you a transponder code. You entered that, he found you on
radar, and he declared "radar contact". Now he can apply IFR radar
separation rules, which greatly reduces the amount of airspace he needs to
dedicate to you.

Next, he gave you your clearance. You already had a code and a frequency,
so he just gave you the new stuff, in CRAFT order, i.e. just the CRA part.

Aha! Thanks.
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino

Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
http://www.wizardofdraws.com

More Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
http://www.cartoonclipart.com

On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 11:25:23 -0500, Dave Butler wrote:

Newps wrote:
The squawk was an IFR squawk. There's a difference. A VFR one won't
give controllers a low altitude alert, an IFR squawk will.

How do you know it was an IFR squawk?

Dave

Though, I can't answer your question in regards to the post, I know that at
JAN, if I request local VFR, they will ask me to squawk 0101 through 0150.
If I ask for a local IFR clearance, they will have me squawk 0151 through
0199.

Maybe the same works for cross country trips, e.g last two digits for VFR
ends between certain numbers???

Allen

You might squawk 0177, but never 0199.

"A Lieberman" wrote in message =
...
=20
=20
Though, I can't answer your question in regards to the post, I know =
that at
JAN, if I request local VFR, they will ask me to squawk 0101 through =
0150.
If I ask for a local IFR clearance, they will have me squawk 0151 =
through
0199.
=20
=20
Allen