When does IFR begin in VFR?

"Jose" wrote in message
m...

Don't be silly.


I'll continue my practice of not being silly.



0200 has a two, and three zeros. That adds up to two. (it's those zeros
that bring it down)

The zeros do not bring it down. Zeros have no effect on addition. You're
confusing addition with multiplication.

"KP" nospam@please wrote in message
...
"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
m...
There's no difference in the code numbers for IFR and VFR. What there
is
are codes good internal to a facility and external to a facility.

Not exactly sure what you mean by that, but if you mean codes are assigned
willy-nilly regardless of whether the aircraft is VFR or IFR, that's not
entirely true.

Terminal facilities (and maybe centers) split parts of their beacon code
allocation into subsets. The computer is then programmed to perform the
different functions associated with whatever subset a discrete code is in.
For example: In one facility I recall 01XX was used for VFR, 04XX for
Local IFR, and there were a couple others. There were also several
sub-subsets for stuff like VFR w/MSAW or the local traffic/police
helicopters.

When you entered the data to generate a track you hit one key for IFR and
a different key for VFR (actually VFR was assumed and no keystroke was
needed). The computer then assigned the next available discrete code from
the appropriate block.

IF a person knows what subset that particular facility has assigned to
what function it's possible to tell a VFR code from an IFR code.

There's also the possibility (more like probability) that the aircraft in
question was being treated as a pop-up in which case the controller would
assign a VFR code by default.

Once the controller had figured out who, what,and where he'd issue the IFR
clearance and a revised (IFR) code.

You're
confusing addition with multiplication.

Addition and multplication are the same. 2+2 = 2x2 QED.
Lemma: exponentiation is the same too. 2^2 = 2x2 = 2+2. BFD.

And zeros have a big effect on addition. 20+2 is not the same as 2+2,
and the only difference is that piddly zero.

bonus information: 25(dec) = 31(oct). Therefore Christmas is the
same as Halloween.

Jose
--
Nothing is more powerful than a commercial interest.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jose" wrote in message
m...

Addition and multplication are the same. 2+2 = 2x2 QED.


Try it with a number other than 2.



Lemma: exponentiation is the same too. 2^2 = 2x2 = 2+2. BFD.


Let's get your basic arithmetic up to speed before we move on.



And zeros have a big effect on addition. 20+2 is not the same as 2+2, and
the only difference is that piddly zero.


20 is not the same as 2.

Because he was asking for an IFR clearance. The controller reaches over
and looks for that airplanes strip and reads him the squawk off the strip.



Dave Butler wrote:
Newps wrote:

The squawk was an IFR squawk. There's a difference. A VFR one won't
give controllers a low altitude alert, an IFR squawk will.


How do you know it was an IFR squawk?

Jose wrote:

A VFR one won't give controllers a low altitude alert, an IFR squawk
will.


By VFR squawk do you mean just 1200, or do you mean any of a set of
codes which ATC tags as not an IFR aircraft?

There are certain codes which have the low altitude alert inhibited.
Here at BIL they are any code that starts with 02 and 04. All other
codes, except those starting with 12, can generate a low altitude alert.

KP wrote:


There's also the possibility (more like probability) that the aircraft in
question was being treated as a pop-up in which case the controller would
assign a VFR code by default.

But he said on initial contact that he was ready to copy his IFR
clearance. That statement alone will cause the controller to look for
that aircrafts IFR strip and not start massaging the ARTS keyboard or
FDEP to enter a clearance.

Newps wrote:
Because he was asking for an IFR clearance. The controller reaches over
and looks for that airplanes strip and reads him the squawk off the strip.

OK, well the OP never said he was asking for an IFR clearance before he was
assigned the squawk. Here's the posting in its entirety:

--- begin quote of original posting ---
"I took a short XC today after a layoff of a few months due to real life
constraints and weather. I filed IFR even though it was VFR because I wanted
to get back into the groove of communicating with ATC.
I filed for 5000 going east. On the ground, they told me it would be faster
if I took off VFR and opened my plan in the air, so I did.

I was at 5500 when I finally got through since I was VFR, but all I was
given initially was a squawk code with no altitude assignment or clearance.
I assumed that I was IFR at this point so I began to descend to 5000 per my
flight plan. As I did I asked ATC if he had an altitude assignment, and he
came back with 6000, cleared direct. No problem, I pull back up and fly as
I'm told.

So, was I IFR as soon as I was given a squawk and required to fly my flight
plan, or should I have waited to change from a VFR altitude to an IFR
altitude until I was given specific instructions?"
--- end quote of original posting.

Doesn't matter. I understand now why you thought he was given an IFR code. Thanks.




Dave Butler wrote:

Newps wrote:

The squawk was an IFR squawk. There's a difference. A VFR one won't
give controllers a low altitude alert, an IFR squawk will.



How do you know it was an IFR squawk?


--
Dave Butler, software engineer 919-392-4367

On 2/10/05 11:05 AM, in article 1108051357.185092@sj-nntpcache-5, "Dave
Butler" wrote:

Newps wrote:
Because he was asking for an IFR clearance. The controller reaches over
and looks for that airplanes strip and reads him the squawk off the strip.

OK, well the OP never said he was asking for an IFR clearance before he was
assigned the squawk. Here's the posting in its entirety:

--- begin quote of original posting ---
"I took a short XC today after a layoff of a few months due to real life
constraints and weather. I filed IFR even though it was VFR because I wanted
to get back into the groove of communicating with ATC.
I filed for 5000 going east. On the ground, they told me it would be faster
if I took off VFR and opened my plan in the air, so I did.

I was at 5500 when I finally got through since I was VFR, but all I was
given initially was a squawk code with no altitude assignment or clearance.
I assumed that I was IFR at this point so I began to descend to 5000 per my
flight plan. As I did I asked ATC if he had an altitude assignment, and he
came back with 6000, cleared direct. No problem, I pull back up and fly as
I'm told.

So, was I IFR as soon as I was given a squawk and required to fly my flight
plan, or should I have waited to change from a VFR altitude to an IFR
altitude until I was given specific instructions?"
--- end quote of original posting.

Doesn't matter. I understand now why you thought he was given an IFR code.
Thanks.




Dave Butler wrote:

Newps wrote:

The squawk was an IFR squawk. There's a difference. A VFR one won't
give controllers a low altitude alert, an IFR squawk will.



How do you know it was an IFR squawk?


I've noticed that our IFR squawk codes here in Atlanta almost always begin
with 5 and the VFR codes when we are practicing approaches begin with 0.
My code on Sunday began with 5, which put me in the frame of thought that I
was IFR.
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino

Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
http://www.wizardofdraws.com

More Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
http://www.cartoonclipart.com

Wizard of Draws wrote:



I've noticed that our IFR squawk codes here in Atlanta almost always begin
with 5 and the VFR codes when we are practicing approaches begin with 0.
My code on Sunday began with 5, which put me in the frame of thought that I
was IFR.

Don't go by that. I can take any IFR code and stop low altitude alerts
with a few keystrokes on my keyboard.