Do you flight plan?

On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:42:48 -0500, Roy Smith wrote:

Dylan Smith wrote:
As for winds aloft, I'll look at the forecast, but I don't read anything
special into them, and don't do calculations.

Winds aloft can be a bitch. The difference between a 40 kt headwind and
a 40 kt tailwind can mean a factor of two in the range of a typical
piston single. For a good example of what can go wrong if you don't
take winds aloft into account properly, see the following link.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3306443.stm


In the Philadelphia area I am usually dealing with winds aloft data
from Atlantic City and Wilkes Barre. Because of differences in
topography, proximity to the ocean and a host of issues that I am
probably unaware of, the data from these two locations varies
considerably. I'm usually flying somewhere in between so I attempt to
interpolate but the direction and speed is often so disparate that my
interpolation is all but useless. I still solicit this data but I use
it more to establish a set of expectations.

Rich Russell

For a good example of what can go wrong if you don't
take winds aloft into account properly, see the following link.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3306443.stm

That really sux. I can't believe they wouldn't SELL the pilot fuel . . .
what
assholes.

Yeah, what kind of people are these who refuse to encourage pilots
to do dumb things? They're probably the same party-poopers who
won't let their friends drive home drunk.

Kyler . . . every pilot has done dumb things.

That's an astute observation. Thank you for sharing it.

You brought it up, jerk.

This guy had flown that plane
around the world 3 times.

..so he should have had a clue of what procedures to follow and what
risks are involved.

How does that equate to trying to drive home drunk?

Read the article you quoted and let me know when you get to this
part.
"He appears to have gone in there without a search and
rescue plan and without a contingency plan if things go
wrong, and he's expecting the New Zealand and United
States Governments to pick up and be his contingency,"
Mr Sanson added.

He didn't have a good plan for dealing with headwinds. He got
bitten. Now you want people to encourage this behavior so that
other pilots are more likely to do the same? And you really don't
see how poor fuel management in a plane equates to driving drunk?
(Hints: both kill, both can be readily avoided.)


Idiot. This guy is an adventurer . . . not a typical spamcan driver with a
PPL. By your logic, when Steve Fossett tries to balloon around the world, and
gets forced down in the middle of Russia or some remote part of China, nobody
should help him either.

Yes, I realize that there are US citizens who always expect to be
bailed out when they fail to plan ahead. I'm not one of them. (I
just work in California. I live in Indiana.)

Idiot. He's not asking to be "bailed out". He just wants to buy some fuel.



www.Rosspilot.com

To look at it another way, why would AOPA care one way or another whether
you offer discounts to their members?

As far as I can tell, AOPA is aviation's rendition of AAA. As
organizations, both advocate for their members -- which means that they use
their numbers as leverage to obtain discounted rates wherever they can.

Thus, the AAA discount at hotels and motels, worldwide. And the silly Hertz
and Avis "discounts" we receive as part of our membership. (Which lowers
their rates to only double what Enterprise charges, but that's another
subject...)

I suspect it's just a matter of "where the heck is Iowa?" from their
membership folks. But you have to ask yourself why would AOPA NOT respond
positively -- there is simply no downside for them, and only an upside for
their members -- of which Mary and I are two.

As I've said, I believe it's just another case of big bureaucracy. And it's
not just AOPA -- pretty much any organization with more than 20 employees
soon becomes self-focused, existing primarily to ensure its own survival.
Thus, "it's about the money".
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Neil Gould wrote:

[ Jay's comments snipped ]

That's a rather strong statement, Jay. The member benefits are many, as
far as I can tell (I've only been a member since 2000). But, they aren't
"all inclusive". Is there some other organization that is effectively
advocating for GA on a national level? Is there no benefit to the free
on-line services, such as DUATs and Jeppesen plates, or receiving local
notice of TFRs by e-mail that members receive?

1) by the time I get AOPA's TFR notice I've already seen it days before
2) DUATs from AOPA? Why? It's already available for free from the two
major DUATs providers -- which AOPA piggy-backs upon
3) Jepp plates? Why? Already available from Jepp.

And 4) -- one you haven't mentioned is flight planning -- again I ask
Why? For those of us who do not use Microsoft products, it's not
possible to use. And if our membership money was used to develop it,
then AOPA took my money and gave me no benefit for it.

*grump*

Rosspilot wrote:

Idiot. He's not asking to be "bailed out". He just wants to buy some fuel.

That would probably be no problem if he burned jet-A, Ross, but this is
Antarctica. There aren't any Exxon stations down there. They're probably only
offering him a ride out because they don't have extra food for him either.

If I set down on Gregory's Bald in the Smokies due to lack of fuel, I wouldn't
expect the National Park Service to hump a bunch of 100LL up there for me. I'd
be grateful if they allowed me to pack a bunch in myself instead of forcing me
to pay for airlifting the plane out by chopper.

George Patterson
Some people think they hear a call to the priesthood when what they really
hear is a tiny voice whispering "It's indoor work with no heavy lifting".

He didn't have a good plan for dealing with headwinds. He got
bitten. Now you want people to encourage this behavior so that
other pilots are more likely to do the same?


How is this different from any other mishap due to poor planning? We go out
and look every time an ELT beeps, forchrissakes, and we don't punish them by
saying "we're not a frigging hospital - you should have brought your own
splints".

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

Jay, you may not "contribute" enough money to either EAA or AOPA.
I was at the AOPA PAC dinner at the AOPA convention. At the end of the
evening, Hal Shevers walked up and handed Phil Boyer a check, which
Boyer announced to the crowd in attendance, was the maximum allowable
donation ($2000?).
You give, you get.

ospam (Rosspilot) writes:

Kyler . . . every pilot has done dumb things.

That's an astute observation. Thank you for sharing it.

You brought it up, jerk.

I welcome you to point out anything I said that makes you think
I made any comment even hinting that some pilots don't do dumb
things, genius.

Idiot. This guy is an adventurer . . . not a typical spamcan driver with a
PPL. By your logic, when Steve Fossett tries to balloon around the world, and
gets forced down in the middle of Russia or some remote part of China, nobody
should help him either.

You're not doing well applying my logic. I certainly wouldn't
suggest such a thing and to pretend that no help has been offered
or given to this pilot is to ignore the facts as stated in the
article you quoted.

Are you asserting that Steve Fossett made no contingency plans
(other than "hope someone helps me") before his flights? Do you
want to put some money behind that or just continue with the name
calling?

Yes, I realize that there are US citizens who always expect to be
bailed out when they fail to plan ahead. I'm not one of them. (I
just work in California. I live in Indiana.)

Idiot. He's not asking to be "bailed out". He just wants to buy some fuel.

Did he think about that *before* taking off?

--kyler

"G.R. Patterson III" writes:

Idiot. He's not asking to be "bailed out". He just wants to buy some fuel.

That would probably be no problem if he burned jet-A, Ross, but this is
Antarctica.

I'm reading more into it. My take is that they wouldn't even want
to encourage kerosene-burners to just take off on poorly-planned
recreational flights in the area. (So sorry, Mike.)

--kyler

Recently, Blanche posted:

Neil Gould wrote:

[ Jay's comments snipped ]

That's a rather strong statement, Jay. The member benefits are many,
as far as I can tell (I've only been a member since 2000). But, they
aren't "all inclusive". Is there some other organization that is
effectively advocating for GA on a national level? Is there no
benefit to the free on-line services, such as DUATs and Jeppesen
plates, or receiving local notice of TFRs by e-mail that members
receive?

1) by the time I get AOPA's TFR notice I've already seen it days
before

Sounds like you could benefit from a new internet service! The notices I
receive are often tentative and haven't even entered the FAA's briefer's
network.

2) DUATs from AOPA? Why? It's already available for free from
the two major DUATs providers

Free?

3) Jepp plates? Why? Already available from Jepp.

Free?

I guess your dissatisfaction goes to reinforce the notion that you can't
please everybody!

Regards,

Neil