If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
"Dave Holford" wrote in message ... " wrote: "Gene Storey" wrote: "phil hunt" wrote Gene Storey wrote: The FCC is full speed ahead with its BPL (Broadband over Powerline) rule-making, and the U.S. Air Force is looking to spend billions now on replacement communications systems, as the use of HF radio will no longer be possible. Why not? Tune your radio to 60 Hz. After BPL 2 mHz to 80 mHz (and their harmonics) will have trash on the whole spectrum. C'mon Gene, try to make some sense here will you?...why should one tune to 60 Hz? (the power line freq btw). Pls do explain what the hell you're talking about. -- -Gord. I presume he is trying to make the, valid, point that all those power lines radiate a very nice signal at 60Hz, and by implication that they will do the same if BPL is permitted to transmit digital data between 2 and 80MHz over the same lines. It's late, so I'm not going to try and look it up now, but IIRC BPL has been banned in some administrations for precisely that reason - ISTR that Japan is one such administration. BTW John - Long (very long) wires make excellent antennas provided that they are at least several wavelenghts long. Don't they tend to be directional off the pointy end? |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
"John Keeney" wrote
Don't they tend to be directional off the pointy end? No. Electrical waves are right angles to the conductor, often shaped like a doughnut. But it doesn't matter in the near-field, as the signal will be everywhere. |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
"Dave Holford" wrote in message ... " wrote: "Gene Storey" wrote: "phil hunt" wrote Gene Storey wrote: The FCC is full speed ahead with its BPL (Broadband over Powerline) rule-making, and the U.S. Air Force is looking to spend billions now on replacement communications systems, as the use of HF radio will no longer be possible. Why not? Tune your radio to 60 Hz. After BPL 2 mHz to 80 mHz (and their harmonics) will have trash on the whole spectrum. C'mon Gene, try to make some sense here will you?...why should one tune to 60 Hz? (the power line freq btw). Pls do explain what the hell you're talking about. -- -Gord. I presume he is trying to make the, valid, point that all those power lines radiate a very nice signal at 60Hz, and by implication that they will do the same if BPL is permitted to transmit digital data between 2 and 80MHz over the same lines. It's late, so I'm not going to try and look it up now, but IIRC BPL has been banned in some administrations for precisely that reason - ISTR that Japan is one such administration. BTW John - Long (very long) wires make excellent antennas provided that they are at least several wavelenghts long. Self cancelling at a short distance, do the math. |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 22:23:07 -0400, Dave Holford
wrote in Message-Id: : IIRC BPL has been banned in some administrations for precisely that reason - ISTR that Japan is one such administration. Broadband Over Powerline products are currently available in the US: http://www.plugtek.com/cgi-bin/axhit...rlinestore.com More information he http://www.broadband-over-powerline...._Powerline.htm Broadband Over Powerline FCC Report Broadband over Powerlines 2003 April 23, 2003 SPECIAL BULLETIN On Wednesday, April 23, 2003, the FCC unanimously adopted a Notice of Inquiry (NOI) regarding carrier current systems, including broadband over power line systems. Although the NOI has not been released yet, the remarks of the Commissioners, who were "excited" about this "historic breakthrough", are encouraging signs that the NOI will promote broadband powerline. The Office of Engineering and Technology (OET) presented the item during the open commission meeting and explained that the NOI will look at both access and in-home broadband powerline in order (1) to gather information about broadband powerline capabilities and deployment; (2) to address the potential interference effects, if any on authorized spectrum users and (3) to explore the appropriate measurement procedure for testing emission characteristics for all types of carrier current systems. The United PowerLine Council (UPLC) is pleased by the support of the FCC to promote broadband over powerline through its NOI that it initiated. The UPLC agrees with the commissioners' sense that the NOI will mark an historic moment, unveiling broadband over powerline as the elusive third wire to the home or business that Congress, the FCC and the states have sought since the Telecommunications Act of 1996. As Chairman Powell has said, "Broadband deployment is the central communications policy objective in America today," and transforming every electric plug into a broadband port is "huge". Broadband over powerlines is huge for both communications and electric customers, because it supports commercial applications, such as broadband Internet access, and improves the quality, efficiency and reliability of electric services. Broadband consumers get plug and play access that also networks the entire home or business. They can surf the web, Internet message, talk on the phone and stream audio and video all at the same time anywhere in the home. Powerline also enhances utility services, such as automatic meter reading, load management and outage detection, thereby improving electric services, reducing consumption, and securing America's critical infrastructure. Not only does this technology realize the vision of broadband over powerlines, it also realizes the vision of the Telecommunications Act of 1996 by positioning utilities as the third major competitor (in addition to telecommunications and cable TV) in the retail communications market. Congress sought to encourage utility entry by providing a streamlined process that exempts certain utilities from restrictions that would otherwise prevent them from offering communications services. As Chairman Powell recognized during the adoption of the NOI , broadband over powerline places utilities "on the cutting edge of [a] dramatic digital migration", offering advanced retail services to customers using the existing electric distribution infrastructure so that services can be provided quickly without costly street cuts or truck rolls. The future of broadband over powerlines will be shaped by progressive policies both at the state and federal levels of government. In addition to working with the FCC on its NOI , the UPLC looks forward to working with the states to eliminate obstacles that would discourage investor-owned, municipal and cooperatively-organized utilities from providing broadband over powerline. Encouraging utilities to deploy this nascent technology will stimulate investment in facilities-based competition, drive economic growth, and help to remedy the digital divide, while improving energy efficiency and infrastructure security and reliability. The UPLC applauds the Commission's leadership towards these goals in initiating its NOI. (c)2003 United PowerLine Council -- Irrational beliefs ultimately lead to irrational acts. -- Larry Dighera, |
#15
|
|||
|
|||
Tarver Engineering wrote: BTW John - Long (very long) wires make excellent antennas provided that they are at least several wavelenghts long. Self cancelling at a short distance, do the math. Nonsense, their main use is as directional gain antennas. Dave |
#16
|
|||
|
|||
Gene Storey wrote: "John Keeney" wrote Don't they tend to be directional off the pointy end? No. Electrical waves are right angles to the conductor, often shaped like a doughnut. But it doesn't matter in the near-field, as the signal will be everywhere. "LONG" wires, multiple wavelength antennas, exhibit gain in the direction of the wire - bidirectional if not terminated, unidirectional if terminated at the non-fed end. You are thinking of the classic basic dipole. Dave |
#17
|
|||
|
|||
On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:59:28 -0400, Dave Holford
wrote in Message-Id: : Tarver Engineering wrote: BTW John - Long (very long) wires make excellent antennas provided that they are at least several wavelenghts long. Self cancelling at a short distance, do the math. Nonsense, their main use is as directional gain antennas. Wouldn't the inductive radiation of parallel conductors carrying HF/VHF currents tend to cancel each other? -- Irrational beliefs ultimately lead to irrational acts. -- Larry Dighera, |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
The BPL warning made the ham radio lists a few months ago. I sent a
nasty-gram to the FCC at that time. Michael Power is both deaf to the public and a train wreck. I can't think of a more destructive person who ran the FCC. I wish those rumors that he were going to resign were true. If we can stall this crap for a year, I doubt Bush*'s replacement will keep Powell. "Gene Storey" wrote in message ... The FCC is full speed ahead with its BPL (Broadband over Powerline) rule-making, and the U.S. Air Force is looking to spend billions now on replacement communications systems, as the use of HF radio will no longer be possible. Some studies have even predicted that interference problems will go all the way into the aircraft VHF navigation and voice bands. "Certainly, the end of LORAN and marine DGPS is at hand" said William C. Brodie, Air Force Director of Communications. FCC Commissioner Abernathy says that BPL will be "Broadband Nirvana." The military is trained to adapt, and they will adapt to consumer needs. http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-239079A1.pdf |
#19
|
|||
|
|||
Broadband Over powerlines:
Are there not enough avenues to combat RFI existing today? Secondly, I see a lot rpt lot of modifications necessary to get the hi-freq signals past every transformer on the way from generator to home. Maybe a better route would running fiber-optic down the center of the S/UHV high lines - they're hollow, as I remember. If the resulting RFI hashes AM/FM stations there will be a lot of heat generated. I would expect LORAN and HF stations to go by the wayside in the next 20 years anyway. And AM/FM stations will probably be digital by then, too. So what will happen to the amateurs? Anybody care to offer projections? Walt BJ |
#20
|
|||
|
|||
"Keith Willshaw" wrote:
Scottish Power are already running broadband over power lines, this doesnt seem to have wiped out HF communication and the authorities in the UK who jealously guard radio frequencies seem not to be over worried. Keith Hell...we already have roughly the same thing here in Canada and the States (worldwide?). Isn't ADSL really about the same?...(perhaps lower power though)...they broadcast a ~one megaHertz RF carrier on unshielded telephone cables...what's the difference really?...I have this coming right into my 'radio room' where my (ham) HF radio is located, I don't see any problem at all. -- -Gord. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
AOPA Sells-Out California Pilots in Military Airspace Grab? | Larry Dighera | Instrument Flight Rules | 12 | April 26th 04 06:12 PM |
B Nice war - here's the bill | Alan Minyard | Military Aviation | 32 | September 20th 03 06:36 AM |
Bu$h Jr's Iran-Contra -- The Pentagone's Reign of Terror | PirateJohn | Military Aviation | 1 | September 6th 03 10:05 AM |
04 Sep 2003 - Today’s Military, Veteran, War and National Security News | Otis Willie | Military Aviation | 0 | September 5th 03 02:57 AM |
07 Aug 2003 - Today’s Military, Veteran, War and National Security News | Otis Willie | Military Aviation | 0 | August 8th 03 02:51 AM |