Planes drone out MLK celebration

First, the city we are talking about is Newark, not Norwalk.

Second, the small plane (GA) traffic is NON-STOP, where
a new plane passes overhead every 60 seconds or so
everyday, so this plane noise was not done delibertly
during the ML King celebration.

It was hard to hear the speaker while planes flew above
the event.

Yes, the noise lasts only 20 seconds, and if only a few planes
per hour were out, it wouldn't be an issue, but the airspace
above Newark is a pilots fancy.

daffy wrote:
Today's annual Martin Luther King celebration in Newark, California
was disrupted today by small planes. In a reenactment of the "I have
a dream" speach, the crowd could't hear anything but plane drone.

You're right!

Let's ground all small aircraft.

Actually, let's ground ALL aircraft, because everyone knows big ones are
louder than small ones.

"daffy" wrote in message
ups.com...
First, the city we are talking about is Newark, not Norwalk.

Second, the small plane (GA) traffic is NON-STOP, where
a new plane passes overhead every 60 seconds or so
everyday, so this plane noise was not done delibertly
during the ML King celebration.

It was hard to hear the speaker while planes flew above
the event.

Yes, the noise lasts only 20 seconds, and if only a few planes
per hour were out, it wouldn't be an issue, but the airspace
above Newark is a pilots fancy.


Maybe the dumbass who decided on that area for the MLK celebration should
relocate for 2007 or buy bigger speakers, either way poor planning was the
problem, not the aircraft. The airport is there year round, not the MLK
celebration, it was no secret that the airport was in the area.

----------------------------------------------
DW

"daffy" wrote in message
ups.com...

Second, the small plane (GA) traffic is NON-STOP, where
a new plane passes overhead every 60 seconds or so
everyday, so this plane noise was not done delibertly
during the ML King celebration.


In other words, somebody made a bad choice in selecting a site near the
airport for the MLK celebration.

by "Darkwing" theducksmail"AT"yahoo.com Jan 17, 2006 at 01:35 PM


"daffy" wrote in message
ups.com...
First, the city we are talking about is Newark, not Norwalk.

Second, the small plane (GA) traffic is NON-STOP, where
a new plane passes overhead every 60 seconds or so
everyday, so this plane noise was not done delibertly
during the ML King celebration.

It was hard to hear the speaker while planes flew above
the event.

Yes, the noise lasts only 20 seconds, and if only a few planes
per hour were out, it wouldn't be an issue, but the airspace
above Newark is a pilots fancy.


Maybe the dumbass who decided on that area for the MLK celebration should

relocate for 2007 or buy bigger speakers, either way poor planning was
the

problem, not the aircraft. The airport is there year round, not the MLK
celebration, it was no secret that the airport was in the area.

----------------------------------------------
DW

Daffy: You must realize that most of the people here sincerely believe
that flying small planes is the greatest technological achievement in the
history of mankind. All social costs, such as noise, air, water
pollution etc. are insignificant in relation to what they perceive are the
huge economic benefits created by ALL FORMS of General Aviation (including
landing at a far away airport and having lunch, or staying overnight in
some fleabag hotel and eating breakfast) as well as the pilots' fun. They
think they are paying taxes thru the nose, though in fact taxpayers are
heaviliy subsidizing their activities.

They cannot be persuaded by facts or sound arguments. Some actually
believe that their planes don't make annoying noise. Many say that if you
experience noise pollution its YOUR FAULT for being near the airport! They
will usually tell you "the airport was there first." This stupid argument
is supposed to protect against any responsibility that the fliers have to
other members of society. Nevermind that the argument is fallacious (most
airports are about 75 years old -- there was other use of this land BEFORE
the nefarious little planes arrived) and nevermind that small airports
have turned into big airports which now generate nonstop noise. They
don't care about the nonflying public, and never will. (But don't take
their tax subsidies away!)

Anyone who complains about the current state of affairs is considered to
be a "troll", a whiner or a "civilian." (Yes, a civilian!: recreational
pilots actually award themselves military recognition. The egos and self
deception are that enormous.)

The only thing to do is to start complaining, LOUDLY, to elected
officials, the newspapers, etc. Organize other victims. The politicians
will act once they see the majority is against subsidized, recreational GA
that creates a noise nuisance. Ignore the FAA. They only care about
promoting aviation and are unconcerned about the general public.

On 17 Jan 2006 10:18:20 -0800, "daffy"
wrote in . com::

First, the city we are talking about is Newark, not Norwalk.

Oops. Despite being a native Californian, I'm not familiar with
Newark. I presume we are discussing the Newark located in Silicon
Valley on the east side of San Francisco Bay between Hayward Executive
Airport and Palo Alto, Moffett Federal and San Jose airports.

Second, the small plane (GA) traffic is NON-STOP, where
a new plane passes overhead every 60 seconds or so
everyday,

There must be a reason for such air traffic congestion. Newark seems
to lie beneath the San Francisco International Airport Class B
airspace, the floor of which ranges between 3,000' and 4,000'. Nearby
are Oakland Class C and San Jose Class C airspace with 1,500' floors,
as well as a Visual Reporting Point to the west. My guess is that VFR
air traffic is being vectored by ATC to that reporting point,
resulting in low altitude congestion in the area of Newark.

so this plane noise was not done delibertly
during the ML King celebration.

I wouldn't expect it to be. Rather, it is a natural result of San
Francisco International Airport's (as well as the other airports
mentioned above) influence on the surrounding area.

It was hard to hear the speaker while planes flew above
the event.

That is unfortunate. However, I'm sure an eminent advocate of freedom
such as MLK Jr. would have supported the right of freedom to navigate
the skies granted the people of this nation:

Federal Aviation Act of 1958:

PUBLIC RIGHT OF TRANSIT

Sec. 104 [49 U. S. Code 1304]. There is hereby recognized and
declared to exist in behalf of any citizen of the United States a
public right of freedom of transit through the navigable airspace
of the United States.

Source: Sec. 3, Civil Aeronautics Act of 1938.

Note that Sec. 104 does not grant the right to fly, it simply
recognizes that it exists. None of our rights are granted by the
government, we simply have them.


Yes, the noise lasts only 20 seconds, and if only a few planes
per hour were out, it wouldn't be an issue, but the airspace
above Newark is a pilots fancy.

Perhaps, but I suspect that that aircraft congestion in that area is a
result of FAA design in restricting flights from the Class B and C
airspace in the area.

As our nation's population continues to increase at a net rate of 14
people per second*, we are all going to increasingly find that we
infringe on each other's tranquility; resources such as airspace and
highways are finite, while the population is ever growing.

I am sorry your celebration was marred by aircraft noise, but given
the facts, I can only predict that the increasing population will
continue to increasingly impact our environment.


*
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...type=printable
http://www.census.gov/population/www/popclockus.html

"Skylune" wrote in message
lkaboutaviation.com...
by "Darkwing" theducksmail"AT"yahoo.com Jan 17, 2006 at 01:35 PM


"daffy" wrote in message
ups.com...
First, the city we are talking about is Newark, not Norwalk.

Second, the small plane (GA) traffic is NON-STOP, where
a new plane passes overhead every 60 seconds or so
everyday, so this plane noise was not done delibertly
during the ML King celebration.

It was hard to hear the speaker while planes flew above
the event.

Yes, the noise lasts only 20 seconds, and if only a few planes
per hour were out, it wouldn't be an issue, but the airspace
above Newark is a pilots fancy.


Maybe the dumbass who decided on that area for the MLK celebration should

relocate for 2007 or buy bigger speakers, either way poor planning was
the

problem, not the aircraft. The airport is there year round, not the MLK
celebration, it was no secret that the airport was in the area.

----------------------------------------------
DW

Daffy: You must realize that most of the people here sincerely believe
that flying small planes is the greatest technological achievement in the
history of mankind. All social costs, such as noise, air, water
pollution etc. are insignificant in relation to what they perceive are the
huge economic benefits created by ALL FORMS of General Aviation (including
landing at a far away airport and having lunch, or staying overnight in
some fleabag hotel and eating breakfast) as well as the pilots' fun. They
think they are paying taxes thru the nose, though in fact taxpayers are
heaviliy subsidizing their activities.

They cannot be persuaded by facts or sound arguments. Some actually
believe that their planes don't make annoying noise. Many say that if you
experience noise pollution its YOUR FAULT for being near the airport!
They
will usually tell you "the airport was there first." This stupid argument
is supposed to protect against any responsibility that the fliers have to
other members of society. Nevermind that the argument is fallacious (most
airports are about 75 years old -- there was other use of this land BEFORE
the nefarious little planes arrived) and nevermind that small airports
have turned into big airports which now generate nonstop noise. They
don't care about the nonflying public, and never will. (But don't take
their tax subsidies away!)

Anyone who complains about the current state of affairs is considered to
be a "troll", a whiner or a "civilian." (Yes, a civilian!: recreational
pilots actually award themselves military recognition. The egos and self
deception are that enormous.)

The only thing to do is to start complaining, LOUDLY, to elected
officials, the newspapers, etc. Organize other victims. The politicians
will act once they see the majority is against subsidized, recreational GA
that creates a noise nuisance. Ignore the FAA. They only care about
promoting aviation and are unconcerned about the general public.




Most likely most of the people at the MLK celebration also take government
subsidies.

-------------------------------------------------
DW

On 17 Jan 2006 10:18:20 -0800, "daffy"
wrote:

First, the city we are talking about is Newark, not Norwalk.

Second, the small plane (GA) traffic is NON-STOP, where
a new plane passes overhead every 60 seconds or so
everyday, so this plane noise was not done delibertly
during the ML King celebration.

It was hard to hear the speaker while planes flew above
the event.

Yes, the noise lasts only 20 seconds, and if only a few planes
per hour were out, it wouldn't be an issue, but the airspace
above Newark is a pilots fancy.

This complaint makes sense. Planes heading for San Carlos, Palo Alto,
Reid Hillview, Hayward, and to some extent, Oakland tend to exit the
Livermore valley via the Sunol gap. The gravel ponds at Niles are
sort of a waypoint, and Lake Elizabeth marks a step transition in the
base of the San Francisco class B, so it's another airplane magnet.
Going west or north, the reporting point for San Carlos is the Coyote
Hills, which is a little north of the Dumbarton Bridge tollboth.
Inbound Palo Alto pilots report the Nummi plant or the salt pile, a
little to the south. I'm not sure where the Hayward reporting point is
from the south, but it's got to be right around there. A little
further south and you're in San Jose's airspace. That actually
protects Milpitas because flying east of 680 puts you out of San Jose
airspace.

The result is that Newark and Fremont take it in the shorts.

I don't have a solution, but the poster is by no means talking through
his hat.

Well, I do know one thing that makes logistical sense. Move Palo Alto
GA and San Jose freight to Moffet.

Don

On Tue, 17 Jan 2006 15:05:44 -0500, "Darkwing"
theducksmail"AT"yahoo.com wrote:



Most likely most of the people at the MLK celebration also take government
subsidies.

-------------------------------------------------
DW


Up to now you sounded like a reasonable advocate for GA - now you just
sound like a bigoted asshole

Michael

Michael wrote:
On Tue, 17 Jan 2006 15:05:44 -0500, "Darkwing"
theducksmail"AT"yahoo.com wrote:



Most likely most of the people at the MLK celebration also take government
subsidies.

-------------------------------------------------
DW



Up to now you sounded like a reasonable advocate for GA - now you just
sound like a bigoted asshole

Michael
so are you saying that only blacks would be at a MLK celebration?