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#81
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#83
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wrote in message oups.com... Ah, you really don't need to be X-C pilot to teach the fundamentals of flight. In fact, so long as an instructor is dedicated to his art, that is, teaching, he can take most students quite far without any X-C experience of his own. Is he a better instructor for having done it himself? Of course, and so I would encourage him to expand his own horizons. But I wouldn't be too hasty to disqualify him because he has little or no X-C experience... The next logical step would be to say that if you don't have at least 100 land outs, how can you really expect to teach someone else the finer points of field selection and managing poor choices to a safe, full stop? Bella Karoli never did a full release move on the uneven bars, of that I'm sure. But there were few who could exceed his mastery of the skill. And his ability to communicate it effectively to others. There's something about being 300 Km out over uninviting terrain that puts a completely different perspective on the art of flying gliders. An instructor with that experience teaches even the basics better than one without it. He knows WHY you have to fly perfectly coordinated with perfect airspeed control. Bill Daniels |
#84
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At 00:00 16 December 2004, Michel Talon wrote:
wrote: Ah, you really don't need to be X-C pilot to teach the fundamentals of flight. In fact, so long as an instructor is dedicated to his art, that is, teaching, he can take most students quite far without any X-C experience of his own. Is he a better instructor for having done it himself? Of course, and so I would encourage him to expand his own horizons. But I wouldn't be too hasty to disqualify him because he has little or no X-C experience... I suppose you are an instructor for saying such crap. One of the reasons why soaring is not going too well is the existence of instructors of this sort. In my opinion an instructor who is not proficient in XC is totally disqualified to teach soaring, because he doesn't know squat in what is the essence of soaring. I had the chance of getting some lessons with an instructor who was both young and dedicated to XC, this changed everything in my perception of the sport and i understood i had completely lost my time with the other guys. Michel TALON But your own experience does not qualify you to make such a broad generalization. Perhaps you did not get to the new instructor early enough. Beginning piano students do not need a teacher from Juilliard or the French Conservatory. If the teacher is good and enthusiastic the student will learn the fundamentals and enjoy the experience. A good teacher will release a student to learn what the teacher cannot teach and will suggest further training elsewhere. The beginner in school does not need a calculus professor to teach basic arithmetic. I do agree that the initial instructor must have enthusiasm for the work and must teach a wider vision than just the maneuvers being taught. Your experience may well have been unfortunate but it does not represent everyone's experience. We would do well in the USA to have a two-tier instructor level, but all of aviation is organized differently here. SSA is attempting to increase the number of 'Master Instructors' who can teach XC flying and it is very much needed. Lets not insult all the instructors who are teaching basic flying techniques. The earliest teaching is the most significant for attitude and for safe flying. |
#85
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Someone wrote snip
wrote: Ah, you really don't need to be X-C pilot to teach the fundamentals of flight. In fact, so long as an instructor is dedicated to his art, that is, teaching, he can take most students quite far without any X-C experience of his own. Is he a better instructor for having done it himself? Of course, and so I would encourage him to expand his own horizons. But I wouldn't be too hasty to disqualify him because he has little or no X-C experience... I suppose you are an instructor for saying such crap. One of the reasons why soaring is not going too well is the existence of instructors of this sort. In my opinion an instructor who is not proficient in XC is totally disqualified to teach soaring, because he doesn't know squat in what is the essence of soaring. snip - - - - - - I'm sorry, but thanks to technology I was able to dredge up the following from a thread 4 years ago. I haven't changed any relevant opinions since writing it then... :-) Regards, Bob - not an instructor - W. - - - - - - snip A Fractured Fairy Tale Once upon a time, my instructor sold two 1/3 shares of the ship he built to two of his recently erstwhile student pilots. Soon afterwards, one weekend while practicing for a fun 3-day contest the next weekend at COSA (a far distant gliderport in a far distant state), one of the tyros landed out in a field, whereupon his partners retrieved him...and brought Our Hero the beer themselves. (Lo! It was a strange day all around.) The next weekend Our Hero drew the straw for day #1. He finished 4th in a field of 12, and only several days behind the 3rd of the 4 finishers. He judged his final glide so well that after crossing the finish line, he stayed up to finish his 5 hours. The next day the Wise Instructor drew the straw. He landed out hardly halfway around the triangle, in a field too beautiful to describe. Displaying nerves of steel, our Wise Instructor drove the crew car back to the airport all by himself. Along the way he revealed that now, he too, had his first landout under his belt. Our Hero experienced a hot flash. "Who are YOU to be teaching me how to make off field landings when you hadn't made one yourself?!?" he spake with ill-concealed heat, while feeling vaguely shortchanged. Wise Instructor turned toward the back seat with a twinkle in his eyes. "What did you need to know last week that you didn't know?" was his response. Truly this was a puzzling question to Our Hero, who pondered the question seriously for the rest of the return to the airport...and for many days thereafter. Forsooth (for whom?), the answer was "Nothing," both then and later, even after he continued to add to his landout knowledge firsthand. Years later, Our Hero learned from rec.aviation.soaring that the 1-26 he flew for several hundred hours and in which he made his first 4 landouts, was incapable of cross country flight. This bemused him even more than his instructor's question. And he lived happily ever after. Bob - who still believes in Santa Claus and 1-26's - Whelan --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.815 / Virus Database: 554 - Release Date: 12/14/2004 |
#86
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On the other hand, the guy with thousands of hours of local
twirlibirding will be much better at teaching you to get the glider back on the ground before the other guys in the club get mad at you. |
#87
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Bill Daniels wrote:
There's something about being 300 Km out over uninviting terrain that puts a completely different perspective on the art of flying gliders. An instructor with that experience teaches even the basics better than one without it. He knows WHY you have to fly perfectly coordinated with perfect airspeed control. I'll have to disagree on this one: even though I am an instructor (though not currently instructing) and a cross-country pilot, I don't have any idea why perfect coordination or perfect airspeed control is required. There are moments on some cross-country flights when good coordination and speed control (but not anything like "perfect") are essentials, but it's not the cross-country part that requires it: it's the landing, and a good instructor can teach that without XC experience. As I know it, cross-country flying is rarely about handling the glider, but instead is mostly about judging the weather, observing likely lift areas, and keeping a safe landing place in reach. Sure, a good instructor with cross-country experience is more desirable than a good instructor without it, but the most important part is very much the "good instructor". Cross-country experience will not turn a mediocre instructor into a good instructor. The experience might make it easier for him to entice students into going cross-country, but I don't think his students will as good at handling the glider than those of a good instructor. -- Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly Eric Greenwell Washington State USA |
#88
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"Eric Greenwell" wrote in message ... Bill Daniels wrote: There's something about being 300 Km out over uninviting terrain that puts a completely different perspective on the art of flying gliders. An instructor with that experience teaches even the basics better than one without it. He knows WHY you have to fly perfectly coordinated with perfect airspeed control. I'll have to disagree on this one: even though I am an instructor (though not currently instructing) and a cross-country pilot, I don't have any idea why perfect coordination or perfect airspeed control is required. It's because with that skill you can climb in a weak thermal a sloppy pilot can't use. Sooner or later, that will make the difference in getting home. In addition, every TE probe I have flown with is sensitive to even slight yaw angles. If the glider is always yawing, the TE vario data isn't reliable and centering a thermal will be harder. Bill Daniels |
#89
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Bill Daniels wrote:
"Eric Greenwell" wrote in message ... Bill Daniels wrote: There's something about being 300 Km out over uninviting terrain that puts a completely different perspective on the art of flying gliders. An instructor with that experience teaches even the basics better than one without it. He knows WHY you have to fly perfectly coordinated with perfect airspeed control. I'll have to disagree on this one: even though I am an instructor (though not currently instructing) and a cross-country pilot, I don't have any idea why perfect coordination or perfect airspeed control is required. It's because with that skill you can climb in a weak thermal a sloppy pilot can't use. Sooner or later, that will make the difference in getting home. THis kind of thing seems so far from the basics, that I never taught it, nor would I expect a newly licensed glider pilot to be able to work a weak thermal better than "adequate" (not perfectly, that's for sure). I did not tolerate "sloppy" flying, however, nor should any instructor. In addition, every TE probe I have flown with is sensitive to even slight yaw angles. If the glider is always yawing, the TE vario data isn't reliable and centering a thermal will be harder. You need to find a better probe! The ones I've used don't require perfection, just "good" flying, thank goodness, or I'd be on the ground a lot more often. In a weak thermal, I think "steady" flying, not perfect airspeed or coordination, is required to feel the thermal on the glider and give the vario it's best chance to detect it. Again, these opportuities to teach flying in weak lift abound in the training situation, since this is when training is often done. -- Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly Eric Greenwell Washington State USA |
#90
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"Eric Greenwell" wrote in message ... Bill Daniels wrote: "Eric Greenwell" wrote in message ... THis kind of thing seems so far from the basics, that I never taught it, nor would I expect a newly licensed glider pilot to be able to work a weak thermal better than "adequate" (not perfectly, that's for sure). I did not tolerate "sloppy" flying, however, nor should any instructor. In addition, every TE probe I have flown with is sensitive to even slight yaw angles. If the glider is always yawing, the TE vario data isn't reliable and centering a thermal will be harder. You need to find a better probe! The ones I've used don't require perfection, just "good" flying, thank goodness, or I'd be on the ground a lot more often. In a weak thermal, I think "steady" flying, not perfect airspeed or coordination, is required to feel the thermal on the glider and give the vario it's best chance to detect it. Again, these opportuities to teach flying in weak lift abound in the training situation, since this is when training is often done. Show me a competitor in any field that says, "I don't need to sweat the basics" and I'll show you a loser. I teach that good is good, better is better and the best are those that stay up and win contests. The best pilots always strive to get as close to perfection and as their talent will permit. They never stop learning. Just being "good enough" is not an option. After all, even extraordinary flying skill weighs nothing, adds no drag and doesn't consume battery power. In the long run, it's the cheapest thing you can acquire to improve soaring performance. I don't need a new TE probe. Mine doesn't fly sideways. Bill Daniels |
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