2019 SSA Contest Rules Pilot Opinion Poll Now Open

US contest pilots.

The 2019 SSA Contest Rules Pilot Opinion Poll is now open and will remain open through October 20, 2019. You must be on the SSA Pilot Ranking List to participate. We look forward to your input.

You can access the poll online at: http://www.adamsfive.com/a5soaring/survey/surveys.php

Rich Owen is running unopposed for re-election to the Rules Committee. Consequently, Rich will return to his RC seat for a four-year term. Congratulations Rich!

For the SSA Contest Rules Committee
Andy Blackburn, Chair
9B

what if a respondent only flew a nationals but no regionals in 2019? lowest option for # of regionals flown is 1

On Wednesday, October 2, 2019 at 5:26:06 PM UTC-7, Tony wrote:
what if a respondent only flew a nationals but no regionals in 2019? lowest option for # of regionals flown is 1

Don't check anything on that question. We'll figure it out.

Andy

On Wednesday, October 2, 2019 at 7:40:59 PM UTC-4, Andy Blackburn wrote:
US contest pilots.

The 2019 SSA Contest Rules Pilot Opinion Poll is now open and will remain open through October 20, 2019. You must be on the SSA Pilot Ranking List to participate. We look forward to your input.

You can access the poll online at: http://www.adamsfive.com/a5soaring/survey/surveys.php

Rich Owen is running unopposed for re-election to the Rules Committee. Consequently, Rich will return to his RC seat for a four-year term. Congratulations Rich!

For the SSA Contest Rules Committee
Andy Blackburn, Chair
9B

The topic of US Rules vs FAI/IGC Rules is an ongoing subject. In order to help folks understand more on this topic John Good and I have authored 2 papers discussing the topic.
This is melded into one presentation that is on the SSA web site in the area of Contest rules and process- Important reading.
There is a lot to read and digest.
We hope it will be useful and informative.
UH and X

Those summary papers X and UH wrote are well worth reading for anyone concerned about the potential changes from going from US Comp Rules and moving to FAI Comp rules.
Read and educate yourself, there are some potential substantial safety changes in the wind.
Thanks for writing those up boys and working on the competition rules!
Thank You
T

While John and Hank have written an interesting white paper, it appears to have some significant misunderstanding of how the differences in the rules actually work. The FAI scoring does not compress the scores, it spreads it out by a factor other 2x for speed. It actually rewards flying faster most of the time. While there is much comments made about how pilots could could impact the overall daily scores by flying slower or not finishing; in reality this is only possible to know after the fact. In the real world if racing you must fly as fast as you can and try to finish every day.

From a pilot who has actually flown under FAI rules for the last two years the white paper appears very biased and contains a great deal of conjecture and inaccurate information. At the Pan American contest this year we saw significant changes in scores due to pilots ability to fly fast than the gaggle. I encourage you to review the daily scores in the 15m/std class on soaring spot.

The FAI rules are not perfect, but it is better for the USA to fly with the same rules as the rest of the world. We ae hurting our competitiveness on the international level and lowering the quality of racing in the US overall. If we don't like something in the FAI rules we are better off by using them and working from the inside to change them. The FAI is open to working to improve racing and safety. They have worked with start height limits and PEV markers this last year. If you have questions, I encourage you to speak to those of us that have actually flown with the FAI rules.


Tim (TT)

On Friday, October 4, 2019 at 1:39:16 AM UTC-4, Tim Taylor wrote:
While John and Hank have written an interesting white paper, it appears to have some significant misunderstanding of how the differences in the rules actually work. The FAI scoring does not compress the scores, it spreads it out by a factor other 2x for speed. It actually rewards flying faster most of the time. While there is much comments made about how pilots could could impact the overall daily scores by flying slower or not finishing; in reality this is only possible to know after the fact. In the real world if racing you must fly as fast as you can and try to finish every day.

From a pilot who has actually flown under FAI rules for the last two years the white paper appears very biased and contains a great deal of conjecture and inaccurate information. At the Pan American contest this year we saw significant changes in scores due to pilots ability to fly fast than the gaggle. I encourage you to review the daily scores in the 15m/std class on soaring spot.

The FAI rules are not perfect, but it is better for the USA to fly with the same rules as the rest of the world. We ae hurting our competitiveness on the international level and lowering the quality of racing in the US overall. If we don't like something in the FAI rules we are better off by using them and working from the inside to change them. The FAI is open to working to improve racing and safety. They have worked with start height limits and PEV markers this last year. If you have questions, I encourage you to speak to those of us that have actually flown with the FAI rules.


Tim (TT)

The bias that Tim notes is understandable, given that John Good and Hank are arguably the two most invested (from an authorship and history point of view) in the current US Rules.

It is worth keeping in mind that the KEY QUESTION on the survey is whether we should TRY FAI tasking definitions and scoring for ONE YEAR at the NATIONAL level, then evaluate the results.

Winscore has already been modified and tested for this, so the impact on other aspects of our contest infrastructure is minimal.


My own opinion is that doing the experiment will take a lot of the noted bias and theroetical opinions out of the equation.

For US Team aspirants: "You play the way you practice" - Pop Warner

On Friday, October 4, 2019 at 7:48:40 AM UTC-6, John Godfrey (QT) wrote:
On Friday, October 4, 2019 at 1:39:16 AM UTC-4, Tim Taylor wrote:
While John and Hank have written an interesting white paper, it appears to have some significant misunderstanding of how the differences in the rules actually work. The FAI scoring does not compress the scores, it spreads it out by a factor other 2x for speed. It actually rewards flying faster most of the time. While there is much comments made about how pilots could could impact the overall daily scores by flying slower or not finishing; in reality this is only possible to know after the fact. In the real world if racing you must fly as fast as you can and try to finish every day.

From a pilot who has actually flown under FAI rules for the last two years the white paper appears very biased and contains a great deal of conjecture and inaccurate information. At the Pan American contest this year we saw significant changes in scores due to pilots ability to fly fast than the gaggle. I encourage you to review the daily scores in the 15m/std class on soaring spot.

The FAI rules are not perfect, but it is better for the USA to fly with the same rules as the rest of the world. We ae hurting our competitiveness on the international level and lowering the quality of racing in the US overall. If we don't like something in the FAI rules we are better off by using them and working from the inside to change them. The FAI is open to working to improve racing and safety. They have worked with start height limits and PEV markers this last year. If you have questions, I encourage you to speak to those of us that have actually flown with the FAI rules.


Tim (TT)

The bias that Tim notes is understandable, given that John Good and Hank are arguably the two most invested (from an authorship and history point of view) in the current US Rules.

It is worth keeping in mind that the KEY QUESTION on the survey is whether we should TRY FAI tasking definitions and scoring for ONE YEAR at the NATIONAL level, then evaluate the results.

Winscore has already been modified and tested for this, so the impact on other aspects of our contest infrastructure is minimal.


My own opinion is that doing the experiment will take a lot of the noted bias and theroetical opinions out of the equation.

For US Team aspirants: "You play the way you practice" - Pop Warner

Yes, Tim and John, Pop was right. I would like to add to his thought as to ask anyone, yes, anyone to go in front of the USA Olympic Committee and demand that the USA athletes train and qualify under one set of US rules then go compete(and on short notice) under another set of World Olympic rules. Please videotape with sound, as it might be entertaining to watch and hear!

With zero notice of this new "white paper" being written and then published on the SSA site with absolutely no chance for any opposing views it might be taken as "wrongly' by some in the US racing community as this was voted on last year and has come up at many contest sites with many-seeded pilots voicing their thoughts.

Was this paper written to foster and support our sport or written as to conquer and control by a few who wish not to recognize that this has already has been decided? Will it be taken as "Snowflakes publish fake news" by some unnamed individuals?..just saying.....

Should this "white paper" be removed by the SSA leadership from the website since this topic has already been decided? Also, it could/can have been easily emailed to those on the US ranking list by the publisher or are the writer's wishing to give a false impression as the "SSA" is sponsoring this? Just asking.....but will close with the paper does cover "not all" but some "good" (cough) thoughts...

Best. Tom #711.

On Friday, October 4, 2019 at 2:33:52 PM UTC-4, Tom Kelley #711 wrote:
On Friday, October 4, 2019 at 7:48:40 AM UTC-6, John Godfrey (QT) wrote:
On Friday, October 4, 2019 at 1:39:16 AM UTC-4, Tim Taylor wrote:
While John and Hank have written an interesting white paper, it appears to have some significant misunderstanding of how the differences in the rules actually work. The FAI scoring does not compress the scores, it spreads it out by a factor other 2x for speed. It actually rewards flying faster most of the time. While there is much comments made about how pilots could could impact the overall daily scores by flying slower or not finishing; in reality this is only possible to know after the fact. In the real world if racing you must fly as fast as you can and try to finish every day.

From a pilot who has actually flown under FAI rules for the last two years the white paper appears very biased and contains a great deal of conjecture and inaccurate information. At the Pan American contest this year we saw significant changes in scores due to pilots ability to fly fast than the gaggle. I encourage you to review the daily scores in the 15m/std class on soaring spot.

The FAI rules are not perfect, but it is better for the USA to fly with the same rules as the rest of the world. We ae hurting our competitiveness on the international level and lowering the quality of racing in the US overall. If we don't like something in the FAI rules we are better off by using them and working from the inside to change them. The FAI is open to working to improve racing and safety. They have worked with start height limits and PEV markers this last year. If you have questions, I encourage you to speak to those of us that have actually flown with the FAI rules.


Tim (TT)

The bias that Tim notes is understandable, given that John Good and Hank are arguably the two most invested (from an authorship and history point of view) in the current US Rules.

It is worth keeping in mind that the KEY QUESTION on the survey is whether we should TRY FAI tasking definitions and scoring for ONE YEAR at the NATIONAL level, then evaluate the results.

Winscore has already been modified and tested for this, so the impact on other aspects of our contest infrastructure is minimal.


My own opinion is that doing the experiment will take a lot of the noted bias and theroetical opinions out of the equation.

For US Team aspirants: "You play the way you practice" - Pop Warner

Yes, Tim and John, Pop was right. I would like to add to his thought as to ask anyone, yes, anyone to go in front of the USA Olympic Committee and demand that the USA athletes train and qualify under one set of US rules then go compete(and on short notice) under another set of World Olympic rules.. Please videotape with sound, as it might be entertaining to watch and hear!

With zero notice of this new "white paper" being written and then published on the SSA site with absolutely no chance for any opposing views it might be taken as "wrongly' by some in the US racing community as this was voted on last year and has come up at many contest sites with many-seeded pilots voicing their thoughts.

Was this paper written to foster and support our sport or written as to conquer and control by a few who wish not to recognize that this has already has been decided? Will it be taken as "Snowflakes publish fake news" by some unnamed individuals?..just saying.....

Should this "white paper" be removed by the SSA leadership from the website since this topic has already been decided? Also, it could/can have been easily emailed to those on the US ranking list by the publisher or are the writer's wishing to give a false impression as the "SSA" is sponsoring this? Just asking.....but will close with the paper does cover "not all" but some "good" (cough) thoughts...

Best. Tom #711.

Write the rebuttal then. I'll read it. Personally, I think the rules are secondary. I think the Polish team could come here, fly under our rules, kick us twice around the block. Sebastian would probably complain that the tasking was too short for a meaningful test of prowess.


best,
Evan / T8

On Friday, October 4, 2019 at 2:33:52 PM UTC-4, Tom Kelley #711 wrote:
On Friday, October 4, 2019 at 7:48:40 AM UTC-6, John Godfrey (QT) wrote:
On Friday, October 4, 2019 at 1:39:16 AM UTC-4, Tim Taylor wrote:
While John and Hank have written an interesting white paper, it appears to have some significant misunderstanding of how the differences in the rules actually work. The FAI scoring does not compress the scores, it spreads it out by a factor other 2x for speed. It actually rewards flying faster most of the time. While there is much comments made about how pilots could could impact the overall daily scores by flying slower or not finishing; in reality this is only possible to know after the fact. In the real world if racing you must fly as fast as you can and try to finish every day.

From a pilot who has actually flown under FAI rules for the last two years the white paper appears very biased and contains a great deal of conjecture and inaccurate information. At the Pan American contest this year we saw significant changes in scores due to pilots ability to fly fast than the gaggle. I encourage you to review the daily scores in the 15m/std class on soaring spot.

The FAI rules are not perfect, but it is better for the USA to fly with the same rules as the rest of the world. We ae hurting our competitiveness on the international level and lowering the quality of racing in the US overall. If we don't like something in the FAI rules we are better off by using them and working from the inside to change them. The FAI is open to working to improve racing and safety. They have worked with start height limits and PEV markers this last year. If you have questions, I encourage you to speak to those of us that have actually flown with the FAI rules.


Tim (TT)

The bias that Tim notes is understandable, given that John Good and Hank are arguably the two most invested (from an authorship and history point of view) in the current US Rules.

It is worth keeping in mind that the KEY QUESTION on the survey is whether we should TRY FAI tasking definitions and scoring for ONE YEAR at the NATIONAL level, then evaluate the results.

Winscore has already been modified and tested for this, so the impact on other aspects of our contest infrastructure is minimal.


My own opinion is that doing the experiment will take a lot of the noted bias and theroetical opinions out of the equation.

For US Team aspirants: "You play the way you practice" - Pop Warner

Yes, Tim and John, Pop was right. I would like to add to his thought as to ask anyone, yes, anyone to go in front of the USA Olympic Committee and demand that the USA athletes train and qualify under one set of US rules then go compete(and on short notice) under another set of World Olympic rules.. Please videotape with sound, as it might be entertaining to watch and hear!

With zero notice of this new "white paper" being written and then published on the SSA site with absolutely no chance for any opposing views it might be taken as "wrongly' by some in the US racing community as this was voted on last year and has come up at many contest sites with many-seeded pilots voicing their thoughts.

Was this paper written to foster and support our sport or written as to conquer and control by a few who wish not to recognize that this has already has been decided? Will it be taken as "Snowflakes publish fake news" by some unnamed individuals?..just saying.....

Should this "white paper" be removed by the SSA leadership from the website since this topic has already been decided? Also, it could/can have been easily emailed to those on the US ranking list by the publisher or are the writer's wishing to give a false impression as the "SSA" is sponsoring this? Just asking.....but will close with the paper does cover "not all" but some "good" (cough) thoughts...

Best. Tom #711.

Hi Buddy.
The paper was written with input from others(including a 2 time IGC contest CD).
The intent was, and is, to help pilots become better informed on the topic. While some opinion is expressed, it was hoped that these would be clear as being opinion.
We used our names for full attribution.
As to the idea that if we just start flying to IGC/FAI rules, we will start winning. Nothing is further from the truth. There are a number of factors that are much more important when flying at the WGC.
Personally, and this no doubt shows in my writing, participation in US contests, regionals and nationals is my highest priority, after safety.
Shields on
UH