US Navy nose cone colours?

Could anyone explain what the rules were for nose cone colours on Navy jets
during Vietnam?

Is it Squadron Commander, Pacific vs Atlantic, paint available.......

The pictures of F4s, F8s and A7s I've seen shown black and white even on the
same carrier [and the occasional pale yellow].


Thank you in advance for any help

Lee

--
It is the bicycle you don't hear that kills you - Amsterdam 2002

lee garnett wrote:

Could anyone explain what the rules were for nose cone colours on Navy jets
during Vietnam?

Is it Squadron Commander, Pacific vs Atlantic, paint available.......


The pictures of F4s, F8s and A7s I've seen shown black and white even on the
same carrier [and the occasional pale yellow].


Part of it depended on when the aircraft was delivered. I don't know too
much about the Phantoms, but for the Tomcat I know that initial
deliveries had the front of the radome left unpainted (pale yellow) and
part of it white, with the rest of the airplane being light grey on top
and white on the bottom (with white control surfaces).
Later aircraft used to have the light grey on top and white on the
bottom extended to the radome.
Aircraft delivered in the late `seventies were light grey overall and so
was the radome. Aircraft delivered in the `eighties were drab grey
overall (with a somewhat lighter shade on the bottom than on the top).

Generally aircraft in serving the same squadron would in principle have
more-or-less the same paintjob, including a certain colour (or lack of
it) on the radome. In part this was due to squadrons being equipped with
new aircraft from the same production batch. In part it was because of
squadron traditions.
For instance, VF-41 `Black Aces' had black radomes on their Phantoms
for a very long time, and even continued this tradition when they
initially recieved Tomcats, making one cruise with them in full colour.
Sadly, VF-41 was one of the first Tomcat units to tone down, leading
to the end of the tradition. VF-31 `Tomcatters' also used to have black
radomes on their Phantoms and Tomcats, and kept painting the radomes
black on many of their aircraft into the early `ninetees.

Obviously, aircraft would tend to be swapped from unit to unit, so units
operating a type that had been in service for a while would often have a
mixture of aircraft that had previously served with other units and
would have been maintained by those other units.

Regards,
Ralph Savelsberg



Thank you in advance for any help

Lee

There was no hard and fast rule about the color of Radomes. All Radomes were
coated with a rubberized anti-erosion coating. This was to protect the ones
made up of fiberglass. These coating's came in 3 colors, White, a off
white/light yellow and black. You could add any paint to colorize the
coating.
Once the Sqd's got the new jet from the factory or back from NARF the
radomes were normally not painted. Reason for this was they was a school of
thought that felt that paint would interfere with the radar or impurities in
the pain would interfere with the radar.
Upon receipt of the Aircraft the Sqds would paint the radome per Sqd
instructions. Most A/C just stuck with the gray on top and the white
underbelly for the Radomes. I was once told that the F-4 guys liked the
black because it was a flat paint with no glare.
Frank


"lee garnett" wrote in message
...

Could anyone explain what the rules were for nose cone colours on Navy
jets
during Vietnam?

Is it Squadron Commander, Pacific vs Atlantic, paint available.......

The pictures of F4s, F8s and A7s I've seen shown black and white even on
the
same carrier [and the occasional pale yellow].


Thank you in advance for any help

Lee

--
It is the bicycle you don't hear that kills you - Amsterdam 2002

CAG Hal was running Ike's airwing during the 1980 "Good deal cruise" (93 days
underway, 4 day break, 155 days underway). As CAGs like to do, the Captain
flew everything on the boat, including a VA-65 A-6 that I am sure he wishes he
didn't...

On deck (I was a VS-31 Plane Captain), we looked aft whenever we heard someone
on final - one day, I glanced up and an A-6 was just coming aboard. It was way
off line to the right, to the point I ducked out of the way when he decided to
wave off. BAP BAP BAP then a roar as the CAG went down the deck a few feet
above it. Looking back down the deck, toward that weird BAP sound, I saw that
he had knocked the nose cones off at least a couple Tomcats packed behind the
island! One nosecone was on the deck, maybe more, and at least a couple others
had been nicked.

The VF squadrons politely swept up the mess and reassembled their abused F-14s
(damage was minor on them), but the nosecones were accidentally/deliberated
swapped - for the rest of the cruise, the paintjobs on our Dawgs and
Ghostriders seemed to never match their noses again.

Sure glad the only thing hurt that day was CAG's pride!

v/r
Gordon
====(A+C====
USN SAR Aircrew

"Got anything on your radar, SENSO?"
"Nothing but my forehead, sir."

Reminds me of a similar nose cone strike on a carrier deck.

It was during a WestPac 1958 deployment on the Bon Homme Richard. An A-3D
tapped off center far to the right. His right wingtip went through the nose
radomes of the other three A-3Ds parked aft of the island, leaving all four
A-3Ds not airworthy.

In one stroke the Bonnie Dick's nuclear strike capability had been reduced
by a third. That pilot was on the next COD back to CONUS.

WDA
CDR USN
VF-24, VA-192, VAH-4

end

"Gordon" wrote in message
...
CAG Hal was running Ike's airwing during the 1980 "Good deal cruise" (93
days
underway, 4 day break, 155 days underway). As CAGs like to do, the
Captain
flew everything on the boat, including a VA-65 A-6 that I am sure he
wishes he
didn't...

On deck (I was a VS-31 Plane Captain), we looked aft whenever we heard
someone
on final - one day, I glanced up and an A-6 was just coming aboard. It
was way
off line to the right, to the point I ducked out of the way when he
decided to
wave off. BAP BAP BAP then a roar as the CAG went down the deck a few
feet
above it. Looking back down the deck, toward that weird BAP sound, I saw
that
he had knocked the nose cones off at least a couple Tomcats packed behind
the
island! One nosecone was on the deck, maybe more, and at least a couple
others
had been nicked.

The VF squadrons politely swept up the mess and reassembled their abused
F-14s
(damage was minor on them), but the nosecones were
accidentally/deliberated
swapped - for the rest of the cruise, the paintjobs on our Dawgs and
Ghostriders seemed to never match their noses again.

Sure glad the only thing hurt that day was CAG's pride!

v/r
Gordon
====(A+C====
USN SAR Aircrew

"Got anything on your radar, SENSO?"
"Nothing but my forehead, sir."

In one stroke the Bonnie Dick's nuclear strike capability had been reduced
by a third. That pilot was on the next COD back to CONUS.

But think of it - he probably saved the crews on those other all three deads.

v/r
Gordon
====(A+C====
USN SAR Aircrew

"Got anything on your radar, SENSO?"
"Nothing but my forehead, sir."

Ralph- VF-31 `Tomcatters' also used to have black
radomes on their Phantoms and Tomcats, and kept painting the radomes
black on many of their aircraft into the early `ninetees. BRBR

Yep and don't forget the red hub caps!!

In VF-31 'Pencil Noses' in Turkeys, 1985-1988
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

nt (Gordon) wrote in message ...
CAG Hal was running Ike's airwing during the 1980 "Good deal cruise" (93 days
underway, 4 day break, 155 days underway).

Don't forget, 347 days total underway time for 1980 also


The VF squadrons politely swept up the mess and reassembled their abused F-14s
(damage was minor on them), but the nosecones were accidentally/deliberated
swapped - for the rest of the cruise, the paintjobs on our Dawgs and
Ghostriders seemed to never match their noses again.

Sure glad the only thing hurt that day was CAG's pride!

Yeah, that day, but you forgot the wing sweep incident later on
deployment that left the Dogs (I think) w/one less jet for flyoff...
that was also his least Tomcat hop too IIRC. As far as flying with
all the others, well, I think I remember him flying with us
(Bluetails)-- once --

Will Dossel
last of the Steeljaws (VAW-122)

Yeah, that day, but you forgot the wing sweep incident later on
deployment that left the Dogs (I think) w/one less jet for flyoff...
that was also his least Tomcat hop too IIRC.

Dredging up some rather dormant brain cells here, but wasn't he responsible for
the infamous "Lost Dawg"? I have photos of it somewhere, after the flight
leader brought his element in to land on Ike (gee, I wonder why there is
exhaust coming out of that carrier..?), realized his mistake and waved off, but
didn't warn #2, who went on to trap on Connie. They kept the Tomcat for a
short period, to facilitate a little "corrosion control" (a rather thorough job
of graffiti application) before the 'Lost Dawg' and crew returned to Ike for
their public embarrassment. Wasn't CAG the flight lead for that incident as
well....?

As far as flying with
all the others, well, I think I remember him flying with us
(Bluetails)-- once --

Your birds weren't sexy enough for him LOL. ) Nice to see you again,
Will.

v/r
Gordon
====(A+C====
USN SAR Aircrew

"Got anything on your radar, SENSO?"
"Nothing but my forehead, sir."

nt (Gordon) wrote in message ...
Yeah, that day, but you forgot the wing sweep incident later on
deployment that left the Dogs (I think) w/one less jet for flyoff...
that was also his least Tomcat hop too IIRC.

Dredging up some rather dormant brain cells here, but wasn't he responsible for
the infamous "Lost Dawg"? I have photos of it somewhere, after the flight
leader brought his element in to land on Ike (gee, I wonder why there is
exhaust coming out of that carrier..?), realized his mistake and waved off, but
didn't warn #2, who went on to trap on Connie. They kept the Tomcat for a
short period, to facilitate a little "corrosion control" (a rather thorough job
of graffiti application) before the 'Lost Dawg' and crew returned to Ike for
their public embarrassment. Wasn't CAG the flight lead for that incident as
well....?

.... I had launched on the event just before the lost Dog's return, saw
the IFF hit coming from Connie that ID'd it as one of ours and asked
if he had just launched from her...after a pregnant pause came the
reply "roger -- and I'm not going to say why..."

Here's 'nother CAG/Tomcat story -- during one of the "killer May"
evolutions, we ran out of F-14s, literally. The only up jet was the
one CAG was flying as all the alerts kept going down on deck. Sooooo,
we tanked him and kept him airborne...for 5 or 6 cycles as I recall (I
remember passing him off to the oncoming E-2 as we RTB'd, sometimes
it's good not to have IFR capability). I also recall he was kind of
stiff when he finally landed and got out of the jet


My first encounter w/CAG came during my first underway period
(workups) as a newly minted NFO (Ensign-type) standing my very first
SDO watch underway. Our CO was standing in for CAG at 8 o'clock
reports that night (cue the foreboding music). He had had a long
night/day already and when he got back from his flight, headed for the
rack, asking me to wake him about .5 prior to 8 o'clocks. "Sure
skipper, no problem" 1805 and CAG office called "politely" asking (as
only the 5MC would permit) (a) where is the CO for 8 o'clocks and (b)
for my presence in CAG office, pronto. Stopped by, woke up CO enroute
who rolled his eyes and said he'd meet me there (CAG Office). After
cooling my heels for a few tension filled minutes, I was summoned in
whereupon CAG thundered "Ensign, why wasn't your CO at 8 o'clocks and
just what the h*ll were you thinking?" I looked him straight on and
said (quite honestly, I might add...) "Jeez CAG, I thought 8 o'clocks
went down at 8 o'clock....?" The choking sound I heard I later
attributed to CAGOPS trying not to laugh out loud. CAG stopped, tried
to say something and finally just threw me out of the office... Of
course, our SWO made sure I got the requisite training all new SDOs
should get, as well as ample opportunity to put said training to
practice for the next week :/


As far as flying with
all the others, well, I think I remember him flying with us
(Bluetails)-- once --

Your birds weren't sexy enough for him LOL. )

Welll, beauty *is* in the eye of the beholder...

Will Dossel
Last of the Steeljaws (VAW-122)