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  #21  
Old April 21st 07, 05:36 PM posted to rec.aviation.owning
Frank Ch. Eigler
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 89
Default Radio buzz


The Visitor writes:

Could you cite the appropriate CAR please.


Like you, I don't have time to wade through them. And I don't have
them memorized.


That's rich -- after you make the blanket assertion:

In Canada a pilot isn't even allowed to remove and re-install a
radio. Actually not even tighten it up in it's tray,
technically. [...]


[...]
If you find anything post it here?


Certainly.

http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/Re...ards/a625a.htm

(18) removal and replacement of avionics components that are rack
mounted or otherwise designed for rapid removal and replacement,
where the work does not require testing other than an operational
check;

Next time you feel the need to make a blanket statement, please do
your homework first, or at least when someone calls you on it.


- FChE
  #22  
Old April 22nd 07, 05:54 AM posted to rec.aviation.owning
The Visitor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 231
Default Radio buzz

Hey, don't be a turd.

I was on my way out the door to do a ride.
I tried pointing him in the right direction and did my best under the
time constraints. I thought I started him on the right path in case I
couldn't help him in time. And I was going to follow up on it.

Your quote.
Did you read the second paragraph...at the TOP!!
"For aircraft operated pursuant to Subpart 406* and Part VII, the
applicable tasks listed below are elementary work, provided they are
individually listed in the operator's maintenance control manual and or
operational manual as applicable,"

Subpart 406, isn't that Flight Training Units? (Okay I was going to get
rude, but I won't.)Does he have an operator's maintenance control
manual? No!! Is he a flying school???? No!!

There is a listing of private owner maintenance, (non-experimental) And
I still feel it is not on the list. I don't rule out being wrong, but
hey fella, loose the attitude. I don't think the person asking, is the
owner of a flying school with an approved MCM.

Man what is it with some of you. You play that, "cite the regulation"
game to no end. Don't you have a life of any sort. No? Okay fine, then
there is the work of art such as yourself that jumps, without
understanding (reading) just to score a "kill". When do you jacka@$'$
say "sorry" when you are wrong???? Duh, like now.

As for "blanket statements" and "homework". Man you have it coming in
spades for this boneheaded mistake. Why are you so effing hostile????????

I have helped a lot of people in aviation and don't deserve your brand
of smelly crap, even _if_ I was wrong. Last time I met someone like you,
he was a Ph.D. of basket weaving. I am going to read again what you
wrote, just for a laugh. Well you taught me for trying to be
informative. What a waste of my time. Thank you very much, you have
succeeded in making your problem, my problem. I'm glad I'm not sitting
in the back of your airplane, or even, dare I say, car.

Get lost.

I hope you fly better than you live life. And although it is wasted on
you this day, I hope, one day, you live better than you fly.

Now on the something interesting. Some helicopters that have four main
rotor blades with a blade folding system are constructed that by pulling
some magic expandable bolt out they can be swung around and stowed
together so that space is saved in a hangar. In the US this is commonly
done by the pilot. One manufacturer even markets it as a pilot function.
But in reality it needs to be done, and signed off, by an AME. Strange,
but true. But I don't ever rule out being wrong. And if you are civil I
would enjoy conversing with you. But, be warned, it is true, I gave up
being perfect long ago.

I have had a long day. Kindest regards to the friendly people in this group.

John





*
http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/Re...les/NPA406.htm












Frank Ch. Eigler wrote:
The Visitor writes:


Could you cite the appropriate CAR please.


Like you, I don't have time to wade through them. And I don't have
them memorized.



That's rich -- after you make the blanket assertion:


In Canada a pilot isn't even allowed to remove and re-install a
radio. Actually not even tighten it up in it's tray,
technically. [...]



[...]
If you find anything post it here?



Certainly.

http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/Re...ards/a625a.htm

(18) removal and replacement of avionics components that are rack
mounted or otherwise designed for rapid removal and replacement,
where the work does not require testing other than an operational
check;

Next time you feel the need to make a blanket statement, please do
your homework first, or at least when someone calls you on it.


- FChE


  #23  
Old April 22nd 07, 06:04 AM posted to rec.aviation.owning
The Visitor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 231
Default Radio buzz



Robert M. Gary wrote:

Gees, you'd think there would be an IQ test to use a computer.



Robert, you have a talent for hitting the nail, square on the head.

I probably don't belong in here(to many pin headed buzzards)but I had to
come back to your post, and pay it homage; one more time.

People's attitudes are so indicative of their life choices.
It is that diversity that makes the world-go-round.

Don't you change.

John

  #24  
Old April 22nd 07, 02:44 PM posted to rec.aviation.owning
The Visitor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 231
Default Radio buzz

Drew, along those lines at a local flying school, (I have nothing to do
with them or any flying school though) an instructor got in trouble for
changing a landing light and going night flying. not because he didn't
do a logbook entry.Turns out there, it has to be changed out by the
shop. Sometimes it doesn't pay to get the job done. But he was supposed
to know the procedure, I think it is outlined in the MCM or something.

Myself, I just get the job done. I imagine there are owners who have
beentheir own avionics technicians. Sure they can't tag a radio
servicable, but then it was not written up defective in a journey log
either. When should someone have a problem with this? If someone else
buys the aircraft.

I see if I dont cite the rules, I am viewed as wrong, trying to escape
something. Lots of people don't have time for this. Like googling things
for people that will not search out the answer themselves. If it is
important to them, then they should dig in and do it themselves. This
tactic is usually used with goverment people, to restrain them. In there
quest "to help". Often they try to make management decisions when really
their job is only to enforce the regulations. So one must always ask for
a reference and make sure the person who pays for the fix, is
interperting the regulations the same way. I am now getting ready to go
out the door and will be flying again, soon. If it is important to you,
do give TC a call and ask to speak to an inspector regarding private
owner maintenance. Or are you sort of fearful that will prompt a
'visit'? (Probably a realistic concern.)It's pretty odd the things one
can and can't do. But has little bearing on what is actually going on. I
don't mind being right, I don't mind being wrong. It's just what I think
I was told some time ago. I have no ego wrapped up in either outcome.
Just to busy doing 'real things' to act like some do-nothing pinhead
over something so incredibly trivial. Just trying to inject something
interesting and wanting to help. Got to go do things now, so I won't
even proof read. (The human spell-checkers and syntax gurus can have a
field day!)

Thanks for reading.

John




Drew Dalgleish wrote:
On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 19:17:56 -0400, The Visitor
wrote:


In Canada a pilot isn't even allowed to remove and re-install a radio.
Actually not even tighten it up in it's tray, technically.
Obviously those get ignored alot but opening the case, hmmmm.
I'm sure his local(or not so local) FSDO will help him out.

John


Could you cite the appropriate CAR please. Those seem like rather
harsh rules for something that's not even required for safe flight.
Am I breaking rules when I remove my ELT and send it out for recert.


  #25  
Old April 23rd 07, 05:02 AM posted to rec.aviation.owning
Frank Ch. Eigler
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 89
Default Radio buzz


The Visitor writes:

[...] I was on my way out the door to do a ride. I tried pointing
him in the right direction and did my best under the time
constraints. I thought I started him on the right path in case I
couldn't help him in time. And I was going to follow up on it.


That's great, but that was hard to read into your words.

[...]
Did you read the second paragraph...at the TOP!!
"For aircraft operated pursuant to Subpart 406* and Part VII, the
applicable tasks listed below are elementary work, provided they are
individually listed in the operator's maintenance control manual and
or operational manual as applicable,"

Subpart 406, isn't that Flight Training Units? (Okay I was going to
get rude, but I won't.)Does he have an operator's maintenance control
manual? No!! Is he a flying school???? No!!


It really is not a complicated text - certainly no worse than other
stuff in the CARs. This paragraph simply means that, even though the
rest of the appendix is the all-inclusive list of "elementary work",
commercial aircraft such as those of flight schools' need to
specifically include them in their OM's in order to apply. The
paragraph in no way implies that the entire list *only applies* to
such commercial aircraft -- almost the opposite.

There is a listing of private owner maintenance, (non-experimental)


The appendix I linked to is exactly that list.

And I still feel it is not on the list. I don't rule out being
wrong [...]


That's wise.

- FChE
  #26  
Old April 23rd 07, 02:30 PM posted to rec.aviation.owning
The Visitor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 231
Default Radio buzz



Frank Ch. Eigler wrote:


The appendix I linked to is exactly that list.


It's exactly the list for flight schools with an approved maintenance
manual.
Read the second paragraph.

Here it is....

"For aircraft operated pursuant to Subpart 406 and Part VII, the
applicable tasks listed below are elementary work, provided they are
individually listed in the operator's maintenance control manual and or
operational manual as applicable, along with a reference to the training
to be undertaken by persons authorized to perform them in accordance
with paragraph 571.10(3)(b) of the CARs."




The applicability of that list is explained at the top. You may not
infer other uses for the list. Unless it suits your argument and being
correct isn't important. And do not confuse privately operated with
privately registered. The applicability of that list is clearly
explained. It exists to help flying schools get by without needing an
AME to do everything, which would bust any small operation.

Take your own advice you dished out so arrogantly, and in such an
uncalled for manner.

Waste your time on trivia if that is your specialty.
What's the big deal to you anyway.
But do it on your own, I'm busy.

  #27  
Old April 23rd 07, 03:01 PM posted to rec.aviation.owning
The Visitor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 231
Default Radio buzz

Hey guys and gals. Sorry about my offensive tone. This is gong to be an
argument that never ends and that is not what I do in life. I would
actually feel better if I was wrong, but as it is now, the greater
mystery, I just can't figure some guys out. I try to stay out of these
internet events (picayune games for shut-ins)but I am amazed how easily
one can get suckered in.

Happy flying.





The Visitor wrote:

Hey, don't be a turd.

I was on my way out the door to do a ride.
I tried pointing him in the right direction and did my best under the
time constraints. I thought I started him on the right path in case I
couldn't help him in time. And I was going to follow up on it.

Your quote.
Did you read the second paragraph...at the TOP!!
"For aircraft operated pursuant to Subpart 406* and Part VII, the
applicable tasks listed below are elementary work, provided they are
individually listed in the operator's maintenance control manual and or
operational manual as applicable,"

Subpart 406, isn't that Flight Training Units? (Okay I was going to get
rude, but I won't.)Does he have an operator's maintenance control
manual? No!! Is he a flying school???? No!!

There is a listing of private owner maintenance, (non-experimental) And
I still feel it is not on the list. I don't rule out being wrong, but
hey fella, loose the attitude. I don't think the person asking, is the
owner of a flying school with an approved MCM.

Man what is it with some of you. You play that, "cite the regulation"
game to no end. Don't you have a life of any sort. No? Okay fine, then
there is the work of art such as yourself that jumps, without
understanding (reading) just to score a "kill". When do you jacka@$'$
say "sorry" when you are wrong???? Duh, like now.

As for "blanket statements" and "homework". Man you have it coming in
spades for this boneheaded mistake. Why are you so effing hostile????????

I have helped a lot of people in aviation and don't deserve your brand
of smelly crap, even _if_ I was wrong. Last time I met someone like you,
he was a Ph.D. of basket weaving. I am going to read again what you
wrote, just for a laugh. Well you taught me for trying to be
informative. What a waste of my time. Thank you very much, you have
succeeded in making your problem, my problem. I'm glad I'm not sitting
in the back of your airplane, or even, dare I say, car.

Get lost.

I hope you fly better than you live life. And although it is wasted on
you this day, I hope, one day, you live better than you fly.

Now on the something interesting. Some helicopters that have four main
rotor blades with a blade folding system are constructed that by pulling
some magic expandable bolt out they can be swung around and stowed
together so that space is saved in a hangar. In the US this is commonly
done by the pilot. One manufacturer even markets it as a pilot function.
But in reality it needs to be done, and signed off, by an AME. Strange,
but true. But I don't ever rule out being wrong. And if you are civil I
would enjoy conversing with you. But, be warned, it is true, I gave up
being perfect long ago.

I have had a long day. Kindest regards to the friendly people in this
group.

John





*
http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/Re...les/NPA406.htm













Frank Ch. Eigler wrote:

The Visitor writes:


Could you cite the appropriate CAR please.


Like you, I don't have time to wade through them. And I don't have
them memorized.




That's rich -- after you make the blanket assertion:


In Canada a pilot isn't even allowed to remove and re-install a
radio. Actually not even tighten it up in it's tray,
technically. [...]




[...]
If you find anything post it here?




Certainly.

http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/Re...ards/a625a.htm


(18) removal and replacement of avionics components that are rack
mounted or otherwise designed for rapid removal and replacement,
where the work does not require testing other than an operational
check;

Next time you feel the need to make a blanket statement, please do
your homework first, or at least when someone calls you on it.


- FChE




  #28  
Old April 23rd 07, 04:10 PM posted to rec.aviation.owning
Frank Ch. Eigler
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 89
Default Radio buzz


The Visitor writes:

The appendix I linked to is exactly that list.


It's exactly the list for flight schools with an approved
maintenance manual. Read the second paragraph. [...] The
applicability of that list is explained at the top. You may not
infer other uses for the list. [...] It exists to help flying
schools get by without needing an AME to do everything, which would
bust any small operation.


I'm afraid you're interpreting it completely the wrong way around.

That paragraph means that the list does not apply to e.g. flight
schools, *unless* their OM essentially transcribes it. And flight
school OMs will probably say that the elementary work needs to be
specially supervised or performed by the maintenance department. This
exactly explains your other anecdote, where a flight instructor got in
trouble for fixing the landing light of a school airplane.

Another way to see this is section 571.02 and .03 of the CARs. It
applies to private airplanes, describes the concept of elementary
work, and (gasp!) it refers to the same subject appendix (standard 625
appendix a) to list them. 571.05 refers to commercial type
operations.

Waste your time on trivia if that is your specialty. What's the big
deal to you anyway. But do it on your own, I'm busy.


Next time, please also be busy enough not to post misinformation, then
spray recalcitrant insults at those who correct it.


- FChE
  #29  
Old April 23rd 07, 04:48 PM posted to rec.aviation.owning
RST Engineering
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,147
Default Radio buzz


"The Visitor" wrote in message
...


RST Engineering wrote:


You just don't get it, do you? No.



When you have the balls to post your real name, let me know and I'll
continue the conversation.

Jim


  #30  
Old April 23rd 07, 04:51 PM posted to rec.aviation.owning
RST Engineering
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,147
Default Radio buzz



I'm told you have to have an FAA approved manual for the unit to open
it.


Really? Find an FAA approved manual for any radio without a TSO. Narco?
King? Icom? Microair? You won't find an "approved" manual for (literally)
hundreds of models from dozens of manufacturers.




The manufactor has keep those manuals secret (like Garmin does) so
you have to send it to the factory. However, the factory will no
longer look at it. Are you saying you would be willing to open the
unit and service it for me???



Not without a service manual, approved or otherwise. Not for legality, but
for tech data necessary to service.


Jim


 




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