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Tow plane ideas



 
 
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  #31  
Old June 3rd 21, 11:35 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,601
Default Tow plane ideas

Not so noisy if the pilot would only reduce propeller RPM after
achieving a safe climb.* I was the only tuggie at Moriarty who did
that.* The others make ear shattering noise as they over fly the
hangars.* They still have full propeller RPM after release.* Some people
never learn...

Dan
5J

On 6/3/21 2:19 PM, Roy B. wrote:
No perfect tow ship, all have pros and cons.

Probably also good to consider noise issues if sensitive neighbors are a concern. All of the CS props are noisy as heck -
especially the 260 hp Pawnee and the Callair when either has a CS prop.
Roy

Ads
  #32  
Old June 4th 21, 12:34 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 281
Default Tow plane ideas

On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 6:35:29 PM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
Not so noisy if the pilot would only reduce propeller RPM after
achieving a safe climb. I was the only tuggie at Moriarty who did
that. The others make ear shattering noise as they over fly the
hangars. They still have full propeller RPM after release. Some people
never learn...

Dan
5J
On 6/3/21 2:19 PM, Roy B. wrote:
No perfect tow ship, all have pros and cons.

Probably also good to consider noise issues if sensitive neighbors are a concern. All of the CS props are noisy as heck -
especially the 260 hp Pawnee and the Callair when either has a CS prop.
Roy

Just remember, Duct Tape is not a fix for stupidity! Had a guy here at my strip that had a Cessna 185 with a constant speed prop. Every time that idiot took off he rattled the windows, he never learned, finally moved away. There is a perfect tow ship, one that you don't own and can get a tow whenever you want.
  #33  
Old June 5th 21, 02:11 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
2G
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,439
Default Tow plane ideas

On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 4:35:00 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 6:35:29 PM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
Not so noisy if the pilot would only reduce propeller RPM after
achieving a safe climb. I was the only tuggie at Moriarty who did
that. The others make ear shattering noise as they over fly the
hangars. They still have full propeller RPM after release. Some people
never learn...

Dan
5J
On 6/3/21 2:19 PM, Roy B. wrote:
No perfect tow ship, all have pros and cons.

Probably also good to consider noise issues if sensitive neighbors are a concern. All of the CS props are noisy as heck -
especially the 260 hp Pawnee and the Callair when either has a CS prop.
Roy

Just remember, Duct Tape is not a fix for stupidity! Had a guy here at my strip that had a Cessna 185 with a constant speed prop. Every time that idiot took off he rattled the windows, he never learned, finally moved away. There is a perfect tow ship, one that you don't own and can get a tow whenever you want.


What about the Pipistrel Virus?
https://www.pipistrel-aircraft.com/a...-121/#tab-id-3
Tom
  #34  
Old June 5th 21, 03:29 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Charles Longley
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Posts: 290
Default Tow plane ideas

On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 6:11:38 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 4:35:00 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, June 3, 2021 at 6:35:29 PM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
Not so noisy if the pilot would only reduce propeller RPM after
achieving a safe climb. I was the only tuggie at Moriarty who did
that. The others make ear shattering noise as they over fly the
hangars. They still have full propeller RPM after release. Some people
never learn...

Dan
5J
On 6/3/21 2:19 PM, Roy B. wrote:
No perfect tow ship, all have pros and cons.

Probably also good to consider noise issues if sensitive neighbors are a concern. All of the CS props are noisy as heck -
especially the 260 hp Pawnee and the Callair when either has a CS prop.
Roy

Just remember, Duct Tape is not a fix for stupidity! Had a guy here at my strip that had a Cessna 185 with a constant speed prop. Every time that idiot took off he rattled the windows, he never learned, finally moved away.. There is a perfect tow ship, one that you don't own and can get a tow whenever you want.

What about the Pipistrel Virus?
https://www.pipistrel-aircraft.com/a...-121/#tab-id-3
Tom


I don’t think it’s legal to tow in the US with one.

AS
  #35  
Old June 5th 21, 03:12 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
bumper[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 434
Default Tow plane ideas

On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 6:11:38 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:

What about the Pipistrel Virus?
https://www.pipistrel-aircraft.com/a...-121/#tab-id-3
Tom




With 100 hp, and no turbo, it'll be a long, slow slog at higher altitude airports.

Surprised no one has mentioned the Husky. With 180 hp, I've towed single place out of Minden no problem, a 2 place with "full size" pilots is doable but unimpressive compared to the Pawnee. I've only done that once to rescue a friend's land-out.

bumper

















w
  #36  
Old June 6th 21, 02:19 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
2G
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,439
Default Tow plane ideas

On Saturday, June 5, 2021 at 7:12:32 AM UTC-7, bumper wrote:
On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 6:11:38 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
What about the Pipistrel Virus?
https://www.pipistrel-aircraft.com/a...-121/#tab-id-3
Tom

With 100 hp, and no turbo, it'll be a long, slow slog at higher altitude airports.

Surprised no one has mentioned the Husky. With 180 hp, I've towed single place out of Minden no problem, a 2 place with "full size" pilots is doable but unimpressive compared to the Pawnee. I've only done that once to rescue a friend's land-out.

bumper


A lot of airports in the US are near sea level - only the western US high deserts have high altitude airports.

Tom
  #37  
Old June 6th 21, 03:00 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
2G
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,439
Default Tow plane ideas

On Saturday, June 5, 2021 at 6:20:02 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
On Saturday, June 5, 2021 at 7:12:32 AM UTC-7, bumper wrote:
On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 6:11:38 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
What about the Pipistrel Virus?
https://www.pipistrel-aircraft.com/a...-121/#tab-id-3
Tom

With 100 hp, and no turbo, it'll be a long, slow slog at higher altitude airports.

Surprised no one has mentioned the Husky. With 180 hp, I've towed single place out of Minden no problem, a 2 place with "full size" pilots is doable but unimpressive compared to the Pawnee. I've only done that once to rescue a friend's land-out.

bumper

A lot of airports in the US are near sea level - only the western US high deserts have high altitude airports.

Tom

Also, horsepower doesn't tell the whole story. What matters is the excess horsepower available to lift the glider. The Virus is much lighter than other traditional towplanes, so more of its horsepower is available for this purpose. Likewise, wing efficiency comes into play as well. A more efficient wing means less drag for the towplane. Here is an actual side-by-side comparison:
https://www.pipistrel-aircraft.com/v...-championship/

Tom
  #38  
Old June 6th 21, 03:27 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
2G
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,439
Default Tow plane ideas

On Saturday, June 5, 2021 at 7:01:59 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
On Saturday, June 5, 2021 at 6:20:02 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
On Saturday, June 5, 2021 at 7:12:32 AM UTC-7, bumper wrote:
On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 6:11:38 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
What about the Pipistrel Virus?
https://www.pipistrel-aircraft.com/a...-121/#tab-id-3
Tom
With 100 hp, and no turbo, it'll be a long, slow slog at higher altitude airports.

Surprised no one has mentioned the Husky. With 180 hp, I've towed single place out of Minden no problem, a 2 place with "full size" pilots is doable but unimpressive compared to the Pawnee. I've only done that once to rescue a friend's land-out.

bumper

A lot of airports in the US are near sea level - only the western US high deserts have high altitude airports.

Tom

Also, horsepower doesn't tell the whole story. What matters is the excess horsepower available to lift the glider. The Virus is much lighter than other traditional towplanes, so more of its horsepower is available for this purpose. Likewise, wing efficiency comes into play as well. A more efficient wing means less drag for the towplane. Here is an actual side-by-side comparison:
https://www.pipistrel-aircraft.com/v...-championship/

Tom


Another factor is cost. I estimate that in the US the Virus can save around $8.25 per tow in fuel costs. For a club that does 250 tows per year that is $2,000, more if you count retrieves.

You also can find more towpilots that don't have a taildragger endorsement.

Tom
  #39  
Old June 6th 21, 07:51 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,601
Default Tow plane ideas

Real men fly tail draggers!

Oh, what I really meant was, at least for high altitudes, I wouldn't tow
behind a 100 hp tug.* My gut tells me that the pawnee 260 has more
excess horse power than the Virus and, as a former owner of a Sinus,
basically the same airplane but with a longer wing (and a tail wheel),
and a former tuggie with a lot of tows in several tow Planes, I think
the Pawnee out climbed the Sinus.

Gotta agree with the cost angle, however, but mine was Experimental and,
without looking at the regs, I'd bet that it could not be used for
commercial tows,* I vote for winches.

Dan
5J

On 6/5/21 8:27 PM, 2G wrote:
On Saturday, June 5, 2021 at 7:01:59 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
On Saturday, June 5, 2021 at 6:20:02 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
On Saturday, June 5, 2021 at 7:12:32 AM UTC-7, bumper wrote:
On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 6:11:38 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
What about the Pipistrel Virus?
https://www.pipistrel-aircraft.com/a...-121/#tab-id-3
Tom
With 100 hp, and no turbo, it'll be a long, slow slog at higher altitude airports.

Surprised no one has mentioned the Husky. With 180 hp, I've towed single place out of Minden no problem, a 2 place with "full size" pilots is doable but unimpressive compared to the Pawnee. I've only done that once to rescue a friend's land-out.

bumper
A lot of airports in the US are near sea level - only the western US high deserts have high altitude airports.

Tom

Also, horsepower doesn't tell the whole story. What matters is the excess horsepower available to lift the glider. The Virus is much lighter than other traditional towplanes, so more of its horsepower is available for this purpose. Likewise, wing efficiency comes into play as well. A more efficient wing means less drag for the towplane. Here is an actual side-by-side comparison:
https://www.pipistrel-aircraft.com/v...-championship/

Tom

Another factor is cost. I estimate that in the US the Virus can save around $8.25 per tow in fuel costs. For a club that does 250 tows per year that is $2,000, more if you count retrieves.

You also can find more towpilots that don't have a taildragger endorsement.

Tom

  #40  
Old June 7th 21, 02:45 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
2G
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,439
Default Tow plane ideas

On Sunday, June 6, 2021 at 11:51:18 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
Real men fly tail draggers!

Oh, what I really meant was, at least for high altitudes, I wouldn't tow
behind a 100 hp tug. My gut tells me that the pawnee 260 has more
excess horse power than the Virus and, as a former owner of a Sinus,
basically the same airplane but with a longer wing (and a tail wheel),
and a former tuggie with a lot of tows in several tow Planes, I think
the Pawnee out climbed the Sinus.

Gotta agree with the cost angle, however, but mine was Experimental and,
without looking at the regs, I'd bet that it could not be used for
commercial tows, I vote for winches.

Dan
5J
On 6/5/21 8:27 PM, 2G wrote:
On Saturday, June 5, 2021 at 7:01:59 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
On Saturday, June 5, 2021 at 6:20:02 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
On Saturday, June 5, 2021 at 7:12:32 AM UTC-7, bumper wrote:
On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 6:11:38 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
What about the Pipistrel Virus?
https://www.pipistrel-aircraft.com/a...-121/#tab-id-3
Tom
With 100 hp, and no turbo, it'll be a long, slow slog at higher altitude airports.

Surprised no one has mentioned the Husky. With 180 hp, I've towed single place out of Minden no problem, a 2 place with "full size" pilots is doable but unimpressive compared to the Pawnee. I've only done that once to rescue a friend's land-out.

bumper
A lot of airports in the US are near sea level - only the western US high deserts have high altitude airports.

Tom
Also, horsepower doesn't tell the whole story. What matters is the excess horsepower available to lift the glider. The Virus is much lighter than other traditional towplanes, so more of its horsepower is available for this purpose. Likewise, wing efficiency comes into play as well. A more efficient wing means less drag for the towplane. Here is an actual side-by-side comparison:
https://www.pipistrel-aircraft.com/v...-championship/

Tom

Another factor is cost. I estimate that in the US the Virus can save around $8.25 per tow in fuel costs. For a club that does 250 tows per year that is $2,000, more if you count retrieves.

You also can find more towpilots that don't have a taildragger endorsement.

Tom

I think the article that I posted a link to indicated that the traditional towplanes did have a faster climb rate than the Virus, but not that much faster. And the original poster indicated that Pawnees are difficult to find.

Tom
 




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