Is there any way to avoid ice other than staying on the ground?

I cancelled a flight yesterday because on top of strong gusty winds there
was an Airmet Zulu for light to moderate mixed and rime ice, and on top of
that the destination was reporting layers at about 2,000 and 4,000 feet, a
freezing level of about 3,000 feet, with occassional ceilings of 800 feet
and rain. It seemed to me that I could probably fly between or above the
layers en-route, but I was worried about the possibility of having to
descend through two layers of wet (and possibly icy) clouds and maybe have
to do an approach to minimums in very gusty winds.

I know I did the right thing based on my low level of experience, but any
ice tips from the experts, especially up here in the Great Lakes area.

--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
An Emacs reference mug is what I want. It would hold ten gallons of coffee.
-- Steve VanDevender

Paul, I'm confident you made the right decision.
If it will ease your worries for the future, though, I'll mention that
when I've found myself above some icing layers at my destination,
ATC has always been happy to offer me a slam-dunk descent.
Sometimes, they've volunteered ahead of time that's what they planned.
---JRC---

"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message =
...
I cancelled a flight yesterday because on top of strong gusty winds =
there
was an Airmet Zulu for light to moderate mixed and rime ice, and on =
top of
that the destination was reporting layers at about 2,000 and 4,000 =
feet, a
freezing level of about 3,000 feet, with occassional ceilings of 800 =
feet
and rain. It seemed to me that I could probably fly between or above =
the
layers en-route, but I was worried about the possibility of having to
descend through two layers of wet (and possibly icy) clouds and maybe =
have
to do an approach to minimums in very gusty winds.
=20
I know I did the right thing based on my low level of experience, but =
any
ice tips from the experts, especially up here in the Great Lakes area.
=20
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/

Paul Tomblin wrote:

I cancelled a flight yesterday because on top of strong gusty winds there
was an Airmet Zulu for light to moderate mixed and rime ice, and on top of
that the destination was reporting layers at about 2,000 and 4,000 feet, a
freezing level of about 3,000 feet, with occassional ceilings of 800 feet
and rain. It seemed to me that I could probably fly between or above the
layers en-route, but I was worried about the possibility of having to
descend through two layers of wet (and possibly icy) clouds and maybe have
to do an approach to minimums in very gusty winds.

I know I did the right thing based on my low level of experience, but any
ice tips from the experts, especially up here in the Great Lakes area.


You seem comfortable with your decision so I say that you made the right
decision. I worked up to flying in winter conditions progressively and
after a few years would fly in most PA weather, but not all. I wasn't
too worried about icing in clouds as long as it wasn't freezing rain and
I didn't have to stay in the clouds (descents through I would do,
usually). Of course, a lot depends on the amount of moisture in the
air, thickness of the cloud layers, type of airplane (my Skylane handled
ice fairly well), etc.

I don't mind turbulence and have flown in some really nasty stuff, but
again it depends on a lot of factors, including how I feel on a given
day. Some days I feel great and will take on a lot, and some days I
just don't feel like it. If I don't feel up to a given flight, I don't
take it.


Matt

You made the right decision. Never ignore your gut feeling.

There is a ton of icing information available on the web these days...the
ADDS page is very helpful in taking those airmets that cover several states
and adding specificity. A rule to remember is that when ice is predicted in
a volume of airspace there is a 75 percent chance that the prediction will
be correct....but there is only a 15 percent chance that ice will occur on a
given route. Whether those two figures will combine to deliver ice cubes
along your route is problematical. The ADDS Java tool page lets you look at
a cross-section of your route vis a vis icing threat, and of course there
are specific icing potential pages where you can look at the threat at
different altitudes.

Bob Gardner

"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...
I cancelled a flight yesterday because on top of strong gusty winds there
was an Airmet Zulu for light to moderate mixed and rime ice, and on top of
that the destination was reporting layers at about 2,000 and 4,000 feet, a
freezing level of about 3,000 feet, with occassional ceilings of 800 feet
and rain. It seemed to me that I could probably fly between or above the
layers en-route, but I was worried about the possibility of having to
descend through two layers of wet (and possibly icy) clouds and maybe have
to do an approach to minimums in very gusty winds.

I know I did the right thing based on my low level of experience, but any
ice tips from the experts, especially up here in the Great Lakes area.

--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
An Emacs reference mug is what I want. It would hold ten gallons of
coffee.
-- Steve VanDevender

"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...
... It seemed to me that I could probably fly between or above the
layers en-route, but I was worried about the possibility of having to
descend through two layers of wet (and possibly icy) clouds and maybe have
to do an approach to minimums in very gusty winds.

Sometimes you can avoid ice in the air with ease. And sometimes you can't.
So unless you like Russian Roulette, you need to have a plan B. And plan B
may be having warm air below you at a safe altitude, or it may be the
knowledge that you've got ice-free conditions behind you.

In the conditions you describe, my first concern would be whether there were
safe levels at the destination below the ice, in particular in case I missed
the approach. If that were the case, I wouldn't be particularly concerned
with the descent through icing levels, as I'd have safe haven below.
Enroute, I'd want either a safe level below the ice or the knowledge that I
could avoid icing conditions by choice of level or by lateral avoidance of
isolated or scattered Cu. In order to check that those conditions would
exist, I'd want a similar "safe haven" at the point of departure.

It goes without saying that you made the right call.

Julian Scarfe

There is the old saying "When the weather is too bad to fly IFR, go VFR."
Be careful of it.

But when departing from an area with low clouds and icing and flying to
better conditions, it can be a viable alternative to plan your trip with a
VFR segment into conditions where you can transition to IFR.

I have struggled with the conditions you describe in Michigan, and have done
the semi-scudrunning thing from northern lower Michigan into Indiana where I
could climb higher and pick up a clearance filed from a VOR for the rest of
the route. Terrain up there is pretty benign, but there are lots of towers
around the urban areas. Short trips over a familiar route can be made OK
under the clouds if they are not too low, but you really need an
up-to-date-sectional (meaning the current edition manually updated from the
VFR Chart Bulletins) and someone to follow it for you as you fly. I won't
repeat what I did, it was not a wise course of action and was not
well-planned. The clouds became lower than forecast and things started
getting nasty. A bad case of "get-there-itis."

If the ceiling is at least 1500 ft above the MEFs on the sectional (or 1500
ft above the highest obstacle near your path), you can often maintain legal
and safe VFR to a point where you can reach better conditions (in terms of
ice avoidance) and pick up a prefiled clearance.

Flying to a destination where you will have to descend through icy clouds is
hard to do legally in most lightplanes. There are strategies for minimizing
icing during the arrival, as discussed in other posts, but if you elect that
approach, you just have to recognize that it is not legal and make your own
choices.

If conditions (forecast or actual) permit, you might can plan to descend to
a low altitude, cancel IFR, and finish your trip under VFR below the icy
clouds, reversing the departure method discussed above.

I don't live up north, but I visit Michigan every couple of months. What I
have seen mostly is a low icy layer that is not too thick, and I have never
had any trouble descending through it. But if it is not too low and has
holes, I have always preferred to cancel IFR and get below it when nearing
my destination. You have to have holes, though, because the MVA/MIA may not
be low enough to get under it while IFR.

It is not uncommon for me to delay a trip (or make it earlier) to avoid
conditions that are too difficult. I usually hope to find conditions where
I can get down below the clouds when somewhere near my destination, but
recognizing that I may have to descend through them. So I look for
conditions that aren't too bad to allow that.

There is no one-size-fits-all answer, you just need a bag of tricks to draw
from. And yes, there will be a lot of times when you just stay on the
ground.

Stan


"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...
I cancelled a flight yesterday because on top of strong gusty winds there
was an Airmet Zulu for light to moderate mixed and rime ice, and on top of
that the destination was reporting layers at about 2,000 and 4,000 feet, a
freezing level of about 3,000 feet, with occassional ceilings of 800 feet
and rain. It seemed to me that I could probably fly between or above the
layers en-route, but I was worried about the possibility of having to
descend through two layers of wet (and possibly icy) clouds and maybe have
to do an approach to minimums in very gusty winds.

I know I did the right thing based on my low level of experience, but any
ice tips from the experts, especially up here in the Great Lakes area.

--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
An Emacs reference mug is what I want. It would hold ten gallons of
coffee.
-- Steve VanDevender

Others have offered practical information. I would add that it is illegal
to fly a airplane without known ice certification into forecast icing
conditions.

Mike
MU-2


"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...
I cancelled a flight yesterday because on top of strong gusty winds there
was an Airmet Zulu for light to moderate mixed and rime ice, and on top of
that the destination was reporting layers at about 2,000 and 4,000 feet, a
freezing level of about 3,000 feet, with occassional ceilings of 800 feet
and rain. It seemed to me that I could probably fly between or above the
layers en-route, but I was worried about the possibility of having to
descend through two layers of wet (and possibly icy) clouds and maybe have
to do an approach to minimums in very gusty winds.

I know I did the right thing based on my low level of experience, but any
ice tips from the experts, especially up here in the Great Lakes area.

--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
An Emacs reference mug is what I want. It would hold ten gallons of
coffee.
-- Steve VanDevender

I don't mind turbulence and have flown in some really nasty stuff.....

Turbulence usually signifies cumuloform clouds and clear, instead of
rime, ice. Clear ice, as you no doubt know, is much worse than rime.

I've picked up rime ice quite a few times, with no problem. But one
April day, years ago, near Williamsport, PA, (Great Lakes area) I
picked up so much clear ice in cumuloform clouds in about ten minutes
that my Chrokee 180 was down to 80 knots with full power and barely
holding altitude.

I could not have stayed in the air much longer. I had a Plan B,
because ceilings were 2000 with great viz below (typical post-cold
front wx) and I could divert to land at Williamsport.

vince norris

On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 23:17:08 GMT, "Mike Rapoport"
wrote:

Others have offered practical information. I would add that it is illegal
to fly a airplane without known ice certification into forecast icing
conditions.

Mike
MU-2

Mike,

In the nit-picky tradition, would that not be true only if the a/c had a
placard or if the POH forbade it?


--ron

vincent p. norris wrote:

I don't mind turbulence and have flown in some really nasty stuff.....


Turbulence usually signifies cumuloform clouds and clear, instead of
rime, ice. Clear ice, as you no doubt know, is much worse than rime.

Yes, except in the winter. Here in PA (I live just 50 miles north of
Williamsport) we often have strong turbulence in the winter with no
clouds at all. A clear day with 40 knots at say 6000 feet over the
mountains will make it very rought down low with no clouds at all.

Yes, clear ice is much worse than rime and I've only had one significant
encounter with it fortunately.

Matt