Flight Simulator Software - Any Help or Just a Game?

I'm a student pilot and have heard mixed reviews of Flight Sim software.
Some say it's great for a little on the ground practice. Others say it's
really a waste of time.

I don't expect it to really take the place of air time, but I'm wondering if
anyone out there can tell me if it's really useful, and if so, what
accessories are recommended e.g., yoke and pedals.

Thanks in advance

pjbphd

"pjbphd" wrote in message
news:Nx3%c.213310$sh.156079@fed1read06...
I'm a student pilot and have heard mixed reviews of Flight Sim software.
Some say it's great for a little on the ground practice. Others say it's
really a waste of time.

I don't expect it to really take the place of air time, but I'm wondering
if
anyone out there can tell me if it's really useful, and if so, what
accessories are recommended e.g., yoke and pedals.

When I started my training a few years ago, my instructor asked me during
one of the flights if I had used a flight sim program. I said yes and he
told me not to touch it again until I got my ticket. I was keeping my head
inside the cockpit too much. Once I ignored the stuff on the inside of the
plane, my flying got a lot better and I continued on to get my certificate.
I still haven't played with flight sim since...

Others have said that a flight sim program is useful for instrument
instructions, if you don't use it to pick up or enhance bad habits. Save
your money for the yoke and pedals and invest it in flying hours, a decent
headset, etc.

YMMV

"pjbphd" wrote in message
news:Nx3%c.213310$sh.156079@fed1read06...
I'm a student pilot and have heard mixed reviews of Flight Sim software.
Some say it's great for a little on the ground practice. Others say it's
really a waste of time.

I don't expect it to really take the place of air time, but I'm wondering
if
anyone out there can tell me if it's really useful, and if so, what
accessories are recommended e.g., yoke and pedals.

Thanks in advance

pjbphd



Pedals for sure. The twist action of a joystick rudder does not translate
well to the real thing. You "push" on the wrong side.

Obviously, a yoke-with-throttle-quadrant will also be better than a
joystick, but the left-right-back-forth action of a joystick for aileron and
elevator will carry over fairly easily.

Having said that, most joysticks are designed for right hand with left hand
throttle, and that is backward to a real-life left seat..... If you do opt
for a joystick, get one of those that allows you to reverse the throttle so
that you can operate the control with the left hand, and the throttle with
the right.

As for the "help-or-game" argument, you will find the internet is full of
real-life pilots who tell you it is great, and full of real-life pilots who
tell you it is not. So I guess each individual has to determine that for
themselves.

The main problem for a new student pilot taking up actual dual
instruction in a real airplane is that in the initial stages of flight
training, learning to interface physically, mentally, and visually with
a real aircraft in flight requires that control pressures and how these
pressures interrelate to the aircraft in flight be learned. It's for
this and other less serious differences between the sim and the actual
aircraft cockpit environment that I STRONGLY recommend that all new
students shy completely away from the use a desktop simulator during the
initial stages of training before solo.
So damaging can the use of the simulator be during this stage, that it's
use can actually retard the progress of a new student.
The sims have limited uses later on when PROCEDURES are the issue, not
the hand flying of the airplane per se'
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship

"pjbphd" wrote in message
news:Nx3%c.213310$sh.156079@fed1read06...
I'm a student pilot and have heard mixed reviews of Flight Sim
software.
Some say it's great for a little on the ground practice. Others say
it's
really a waste of time.

I don't expect it to really take the place of air time, but I'm
wondering if
anyone out there can tell me if it's really useful, and if so, what
accessories are recommended e.g., yoke and pedals.

Thanks in advance

pjbphd

So damaging can the use of the simulator be during this stage, that it's
use can actually retard the progress of a new student.

Another point of view:

I learned to fly ten years ago in 1994. I started "flying" sims in the
mid-80s, when they were little more than wire-frame depictions of flight.
(Anyone remember Atari STs?) By the time I could afford real flight lessons,
I had a zillion hours of sim time.

At least partially as a result, I took to flying immediately, and soloed
with just 6.4 hours in my logbook.

Quite frankly, I'd be willing to bet that my time riding motorcycles was
just as helpful in learning to fly (the physics of riding and flying are
nearly identical) -- but my instructor (who, by the way, was an older
gentleman and quite the technophobe. He believed that computers were evil
devices from Day One.) figured that all my sim time really helped --
especially in the early stages of flight instruction.

Your mileage may vary, of course.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Like Dudley, I think that using a flight simulator actually retards progress
for student pilots. I think they can be somewhat useful for instrument
students, but even there I would rather see a student using something like a
real flight simulator.

"pjbphd" wrote

I'm a student pilot and have heard mixed reviews of Flight Sim
software. Some say it's great for a little on the ground practice.
Others say it's really a waste of time.

When I encounter a new student who has "learned to fly" using
a Flight Sim program, I usually find it necessary to cover the
instrument panel for the first 2-3 flights in order to teach
him to fly a real airplane. The US Navy (where I learned to fly)
by far preferred future Naval Aviators who had never set foot in
an airplane before.....no bad habits to deal with.

Bob Moore
ATP CFI
PanAm (retired)

Here's how it looked to me shortly after I got my ticket:

http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/Articles.htm (first Avweb article)

With the perspective of 220 hours, my feelings are mixed:

If you have the time, money, and skill to set up with yoke, rudder pedals,
and realistic flight models (which the out-of-the-box ones are not) it can
be very valuable in the last half of your training and the first 100 hours;
especially if money and weather keep you from flying regularly. If you
can't get anything except the joystick and stock program, forget it.

I was already a dedicated simmer when I started real flying which was an
offshoot of that. If you are not already into it, forget it, you've got
plenty to learn and spend your money on.

There was a time when it was definitely true that I would fly better after
three months away from the real plane during which I simmed extensively than
a month away from both. This was with a custom flight model I developed to
almost exactly match the panel and performance of my real plane. Even the
interior view were digital photos of the real thing. I don't know what the
effect would be without that close match.

I got so involved with real aviation that I just suddenly stopped simming
and haven't missed it. The days when it was really valuable were back when,
even though I had a license, I was still struggling to refine a lot of the
basics. If I didn't have airspeed and positioning just right as I turned
base, I would be trying to get back on the rails all the way to the flare.
The sim really helped me to be ahead of the plane and properly positioned to
get in the groove.

Now, if ATC calls for best speed and short approach, I can head for the
numbers, turn onto the centerline just short of them with a hint of pink
over red, cut the power, zoom up above the glidesloop, put in full flaps and
slip back into the spot I want.
(I don't do this kind of hot dogging often but I could see the regional on
final and knew the tower had called it a bit close.)
That kind of control of the plane, which didn't come until about 100 hours
after getting my license, kind of eliminated the need for the specific
skills that the sim was helping me keep sharp. I think I basically outgrew
it.

I'm sure though, that if I decide to go for an instrument rating, I'll be
pulling the dusty yoke and pedals out of the cellar.

--

Roger Long

"pjbphd" wrote:
I'm a student pilot and have heard mixed reviews of Flight Sim
software.
Some say it's great for a little on the ground practice. Others say
it's
really a waste of time.

I don't expect it to really take the place of air time, but I'm
wondering if
anyone out there can tell me if it's really useful,

It was not useful to me; flying a computer sim is very unlike flying
the real thing. Sims are of some use for practicing instrument
procedures.

On the other hand, I had a couple hundred hours flying radio control
before I started flying lessons, and I found that gave me a very useful,
intuitve understanding of aircraft behavior.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:Z15%c.136659$Fg5.37892@attbi_s53...
So damaging can the use of the simulator be during this stage, that
it's use can actually retard the progress of a new student.

Another point of view:

I learned to fly ten years ago in 1994. I started "flying" sims in the
mid-80s, when they were little more than wire-frame depictions of
flight. (Anyone remember Atari STs?) By the time I could afford real
flight lessons, I had a zillion hours of sim time.

At least partially as a result, I took to flying immediately, and
soloed with just 6.4 hours in my logbook.

Quite frankly, I'd be willing to bet that my time riding motorcycles
was just as helpful in learning to fly (the physics of riding and
flying are nearly identical) -- but my instructor (who, by the way,
was an older gentleman and quite the technophobe. He believed that
computers were evil devices from Day One.) figured that all my sim
time really helped -- especially in the early stages of flight
instruction.

Your mileage may vary, of course.

Although your motorcycle skills and experience would most certainly have
had a positive effect on accelerating the learning process in the
airplane, the actual effect of flying a desktop simulator would have
limited effect. It's true that the simulator would have taught you the
basic DIRECTION of movement for each control, and that would be a
positive, but for the actual purpose of flying an airplane, it's
PRESSURES and RATES that are the pertinent factors, NOT direction!
Control direction is learned early on and the good instructor gets away
from direction quickly and begins working you with pressures
immediately. Over concentration on control direction is one of the big
negatives that has to be addressed by instructors with students coming
out of a heavy desktop sim environment into the real world of actual
flying.
From the instructor's viewpoint, the negatives involved in acclimating a
student to the control pressure environment after having been exposed to
a directional environment only as it exists in the sim; FAR exceeds any
positives gained through the knowledge and use of a joystick in a
simulator.
The motorcycle experience however would have been a huge plus, as is any
(hand eye vs pressure of application equals coordination )background.
In your case, I'm fairly certain that the reason for your accelerated
progress wasn't your sim experience, but rather the motorcycle skills
coupled with your extreme positive motivation and ability to learn and
absorb quickly.

I'm sure it helped however, that from the tons of hours you spent flying
the simulator, you already knew which direction to move the controls.
Why if you had been one of my students, this valuable information would
have saved you a HUGE amount of learning time.....say about the first
fifteen seconds of your first dual hour when I explained control
direction to you. Then of course, I could begin the process of weaning
you off the expected sim reaction and into the real world of getting to
know those pesky control pressures. Who knows...with all that motorcycle
training and hand eye stuff going for us, we might even get into those
pressures without wasting all that much time; but that would of course
depend on how good I was at getting you to let go of all that sim time,
and how receptive you were to actually letting it go!! :-)

Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship