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#131
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RIP Tomas Reich - SGP Chile
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#132
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RIP Tomas Reich - SGP Chile
On Wednesday, January 31, 2018 at 3:15:58 AM UTC, wrote:
On Sunday, January 21, 2018 at 10:59:41 AM UTC-3, Paul Agnew wrote: From Facebook: Sad news from the last race day; Local Chile pilot Tomas Reich had an accident on the ridges south of Santiago. The Chile SAR recovered Tomas and took him by helicopter to the hospital in Santiago. Unfortunately Tomas died during the evening from the injuries he sustained during the accident. Our thoughts and prayers are for his family and friends during this tragic time. Hi to all, I am one of the pilots that flew the GP in Chile and friend of Tomas, who sadly died on last day of competition. On training day, there was an accident during a final glide ridge soaring back home (about 20 km) and at least +500 m above Vitacura as arrival. The new and very complex OGN antenna system we made for the mountains, made it possible to find him on time. Mountain ridge slope was not as very high mountain side, where we have never had an accident in 70 years (since the origins of our gliding activity in Chile). Probably we need to analyse and filter pilot´s personal accident record to start with. No rule, no task, no weather, no risk involved on that manouver explained the accident...however it happened. Why?. On last competition day, we had a terrible fatal accident that is under analysis of course, but the terrain where it happened is not the high and "terrible mountains" as some pilots are trying to define for this country. An 800 meters airfield at 4 Km distance and +1100 meters altitude as arrival. Why it happened???. That is the question we need to answer but probably will never know. We can guess only and cry in the process. We know racing has a risk. We need to be responsible in managing the risk: rules, tasks, safety devices, etc., but we will never be in the pilots head, who finally manages all the factors. On Varesse GP Final there were big complains from a very well known pilot because minimum arrival altitude rule was too accurate without margin. IGC created a 5 m buffer. In Chile same pilot arrived 2 meters bellow the new buffer altitude (7 meters) and wanted to make a protest for 2 meters. Why pushing hard?. Pilots know they have those 5 meters in the pocket and want more. It is the same in all IGC rules...there is always a downside from the pilots. On Varesse GP Final a pilot complained about wing load limit of 52 kg/m2 imposed for two reasons: to equal glider performance and to improve glider maneuverability. He wanted IGC to erase this "stupid rule" and to free the wing loading in order to make ASG 29 more competitive against JS1. Flying competition in mountains with 56 or 57 kg/m2 is even more dangerous!!!, not 52. Now in Chile he says this is the most dangerous competition?. We have to be responsible with our declarations and the consequences, specially taking the opportunity to blame organizers just when a fatal accident happened. It is not fare for Tomas, and the gliding community he will always be part of. One pilot here mentioned to check Kawa´s flights but those in Chile. It is not fare for us and it is an insult for all mountain pilots with thousands of hours and in any other mountain like Alps, Pyrenees, etc. He flies in Chile with the same risk than any other competition pilot during the GP. None of the other 18 pilots flew with more risk than him. He knows how to fly better the thermals, the final glide is better, he is just better mentally and that is why he won. Kawa said in his book that flying in Chile was boring (back in 2010), but few days ago he told me that he wants to take that back after a flight we had together and found to be the most fun and exciting flight he had. Now I am not only sad for our loss, but for the way our Country and the officials have been treated in a famous interview at opensoaring. Chile is one of the best places for GP competitions. Have a nice flights and hope you all can fly our beautiful Volcanoes, glaciers, lakes and multicolor mountains one day. If it is any consolation to you, this is not the first time this Pilot has accused Competition Organisers and Competition Directors of trying to kill Glider Pilots during a Competition. |
#133
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RIP Tomas Reich - SGP Chile
Cindy,
Well said. Thank you for that sobering outlook on contest safety and human frailty. My favorite was 15min of A/C. Personally, I don't like feeling rushed. Dehydration and exhaustion can impare someone just as much as drugs or alchohol; at a minimum it clouds our decision making. Also "safety first" is easier said than done. CD and CM have to walk the walk. Thanks for the post. - Chris Schrader |
#134
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RIP Tomas Reich - SGP Chile
I too was a competitor at this event and have avoided this debate despite
wanting to react to some insensitive postings with phrases such as "you can't fix stupid". I thought this kind of language inappropriate for Tomas and his family: Tomas was not a "stupid" pilot. I want to support Rene's comments below. I thought the venue was very good for an SGP. The effort the Vitacura club and SGP management put into the event was to be applauded. The tracking system, task setting, ground operations and soaring conditions were all to my mind very good, and of course the time difference worked well for the European audience. Yes there were times when I had "interesting" moments but they were all my responsibility, and I can equally think of several moments when I chose not to take or to abandon climbs as I did not like the picture. Were this incidents of mine the fault of rules or organisers? No, they were a reflection of the risks I personally chose, or chose not, to take. I do not agree with the online criticism of Brian and the SGP organisation. The SGP team were all volunteers and no pilot was forced to fly: all this was done for fun in an amateur sport that is voluntary and carries no big prizes. It's worth remembering that. Rene and Carlos had a phrase I particularly liked: they flew to make new friends, not to win tin trophies. I want to fly in Chile again. The soaring conditions are very good indeed, the scenery is jaw dropping, Chile is a wonderful country and I made many new friends at the Vitacura club. Does any of the above demean the loss of a fellow soaring pilot? Absolutely not. Jon Hi to all, I am one of the pilots that flew the GP in Chile and friend of Tomas, who s= adly died on last day of competition.=20 On training day, there was an accident during a final glide ridge soaring b= ack home (about 20 km) and at least +500 m above Vitacura as arrival. The n= ew and very complex OGN antenna system we made for the mountains, made it p= ossible to find him on time. Mountain ridge slope was not as very high moun= tain side, where we have never had an accident in 70 years (since the origi= ns of our gliding activity in Chile). Probably we need to analyse and filte= r pilot=C2=B4s personal accident record to start with. No rule, no task, no= weather, no risk involved on that manouver explained the accident...howeve= r it happened. Why?. On last competition day, we had a terrible fatal accident that is under ana= lysis of course, but the terrain where it happened is not the high and "ter= rible mountains" as some pilots are trying to define for this country. An 8= 00 meters airfield at 4 Km distance and +1100 meters altitude as arrival. W= hy it happened???. That is the question we need to answer but probably will= never know. We can guess only and cry in the process. We know racing has a risk. We need to be responsible in managing the risk: = rules, tasks, safety devices, etc., but we will never be in the pilots head= , who finally manages all the factors. On Varesse GP Final there were big complains from a very well known pilot b= ecause minimum arrival altitude rule was too accurate without margin. IGC c= reated a 5 m buffer. In Chile same pilot arrived 2 meters bellow the new bu= ffer altitude (7 meters) and wanted to make a protest for 2 meters. Why pu= shing hard?. Pilots know they have those 5 meters in the pocket and want mo= re. It is the same in all IGC rules...there is always a downside from the p= ilots. =20 On Varesse GP Final a pilot complained about wing load limit of 52 kg/m2 im= posed for two reasons: to equal glider performance and to improve glider ma= neuverability. He wanted IGC to erase this "stupid rule" and to free the wi= ng loading in order to make ASG 29 more competitive against JS1. Flying com= petition in mountains with 56 or 57 kg/m2 is even more dangerous!!!, not 52= .. Now in Chile he says this is the most dangerous competition?. We have to be responsible with our declarations and the consequences, speci= ally taking the opportunity to blame organizers just when a fatal accident = happened. It is not fare for Tomas, and the gliding community he will alway= s be part of. One pilot here mentioned to check Kawa=C2=B4s flights but those in Chile. I= t is not fare for us and it is an insult for all mountain pilots with thous= ands of hours and in any other mountain like Alps, Pyrenees, etc. He flies = in Chile with the same risk than any other competition pilot during the GP.= None of the other 18 pilots flew with more risk than him. He knows how to = fly better the thermals, the final glide is better, he is just better menta= lly and that is why he won. Kawa said in his book that flying in Chile was boring (back in 2010), but f= ew days ago he told me that he wants to take that back after a flight we ha= d together and found to be the most fun and exciting flight he had. Now I am not only sad for our loss, but for the way our Country and the off= icials have been treated in a famous interview at opensoaring. Chile is one of the best places for GP competitions. Have a nice flights and hope you all can fly our beautiful Volcanoes, glaci= ers, lakes and multicolor mountains one day. |
#135
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RIP Tomas Reich - SGP Chile
I too was a competitor at this event and have avoided this debate despite
wanting to react to some insensitive postings with phrases such as "you can't fix stupid". I thought this kind of language inappropriate for Tomas and his family: Tomas was not a "stupid" pilot. I want to support Rene's comments below. I thought the venue was very good for an SGP. The effort the Vitacura club and SGP management put into the event was to be applauded. The tracking system, task setting, ground operations and soaring conditions were all to my mind very good, and of course the time difference worked well for the European audience. Yes there were times when I had "interesting" moments but they were all my responsibility, and I can equally think of several moments when I chose not to take or to abandon climbs as I did not like the picture. Were this incidents of mine the fault of rules or organisers? No, they were a reflection of the risks I personally chose, or chose not, to take. I do not agree with the online criticism of Brian and the SGP organisation. The SGP team were all volunteers and no pilot was forced to fly: all this was done for fun in an amateur sport that is voluntary and carries no big prizes. It's worth remembering that. Rene and Carlos had a phrase I particularly liked: they flew to make new friends, not to win tin trophies. I want to fly in Chile again. The soaring conditions are very good indeed, the scenery is jaw dropping, Chile is a wonderful country and I made many new friends at the Vitacura club. Does any of the above demean the loss of a fellow soaring pilot? Absolutely not. Jon Hi to all, I am one of the pilots that flew the GP in Chile and friend of Tomas, who s= adly died on last day of competition.=20 On training day, there was an accident during a final glide ridge soaring b= ack home (about 20 km) and at least +500 m above Vitacura as arrival. The n= ew and very complex OGN antenna system we made for the mountains, made it p= ossible to find him on time. Mountain ridge slope was not as very high moun= tain side, where we have never had an accident in 70 years (since the origi= ns of our gliding activity in Chile). Probably we need to analyse and filte= r pilot=C2=B4s personal accident record to start with. No rule, no task, no= weather, no risk involved on that manouver explained the accident...howeve= r it happened. Why?. On last competition day, we had a terrible fatal accident that is under ana= lysis of course, but the terrain where it happened is not the high and "ter= rible mountains" as some pilots are trying to define for this country. An 8= 00 meters airfield at 4 Km distance and +1100 meters altitude as arrival. W= hy it happened???. That is the question we need to answer but probably will= never know. We can guess only and cry in the process. We know racing has a risk. We need to be responsible in managing the risk: = rules, tasks, safety devices, etc., but we will never be in the pilots head= , who finally manages all the factors. On Varesse GP Final there were big complains from a very well known pilot b= ecause minimum arrival altitude rule was too accurate without margin. IGC c= reated a 5 m buffer. In Chile same pilot arrived 2 meters bellow the new bu= ffer altitude (7 meters) and wanted to make a protest for 2 meters. Why pu= shing hard?. Pilots know they have those 5 meters in the pocket and want mo= re. It is the same in all IGC rules...there is always a downside from the p= ilots. =20 On Varesse GP Final a pilot complained about wing load limit of 52 kg/m2 im= posed for two reasons: to equal glider performance and to improve glider ma= neuverability. He wanted IGC to erase this "stupid rule" and to free the wi= ng loading in order to make ASG 29 more competitive against JS1. Flying com= petition in mountains with 56 or 57 kg/m2 is even more dangerous!!!, not 52= .. Now in Chile he says this is the most dangerous competition?. We have to be responsible with our declarations and the consequences, speci= ally taking the opportunity to blame organizers just when a fatal accident = happened. It is not fare for Tomas, and the gliding community he will alway= s be part of. One pilot here mentioned to check Kawa=C2=B4s flights but those in Chile. I= t is not fare for us and it is an insult for all mountain pilots with thous= ands of hours and in any other mountain like Alps, Pyrenees, etc. He flies = in Chile with the same risk than any other competition pilot during the GP.= None of the other 18 pilots flew with more risk than him. He knows how to = fly better the thermals, the final glide is better, he is just better menta= lly and that is why he won. Kawa said in his book that flying in Chile was boring (back in 2010), but f= ew days ago he told me that he wants to take that back after a flight we ha= d together and found to be the most fun and exciting flight he had. Now I am not only sad for our loss, but for the way our Country and the off= icials have been treated in a famous interview at opensoaring. Chile is one of the best places for GP competitions. Have a nice flights and hope you all can fly our beautiful Volcanoes, glaci= ers, lakes and multicolor mountains one day. |
#136
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RIP Tomas Reich - SGP Chile
I too was a competitor at this event and have avoided this debate despite
wanting to react to some insensitive postings with phrases such as "you can't fix stupid". I thought this kind of language inappropriate for Tomas and his family: Tomas was not a "stupid" pilot. I want to support Rene's comments below. I thought the venue was very good for an SGP. The effort the Vitacura club and SGP management put into the event was to be applauded. The tracking system, task setting, ground operations and soaring conditions were all to my mind very good, and of course the time difference worked well for the European audience. Yes there were times when I had "interesting" moments but they were all my responsibility, and I can equally think of several moments when I chose not to take or to abandon climbs as I did not like the picture. Were this incidents of mine the fault of rules or organisers? No, they were a reflection of the risks I personally chose, or chose not, to take. I do not agree with the online criticism of Brian and the SGP organisation. The SGP team were all volunteers and no pilot was forced to fly: all this was done for fun in an amateur sport that is voluntary and carries no big prizes. It's worth remembering that. Rene and Carlos had a phrase I particularly liked: they flew to make new friends, not to win tin trophies. I want to fly in Chile again. The soaring conditions are very good indeed, the scenery is jaw dropping, Chile is a wonderful country and I made many new friends at the Vitacura club. Does any of the above demean the loss of a fellow soaring pilot? Absolutely not. Jon Hi to all, I am one of the pilots that flew the GP in Chile and friend of Tomas, who s= adly died on last day of competition.=20 On training day, there was an accident during a final glide ridge soaring b= ack home (about 20 km) and at least +500 m above Vitacura as arrival. The n= ew and very complex OGN antenna system we made for the mountains, made it p= ossible to find him on time. Mountain ridge slope was not as very high moun= tain side, where we have never had an accident in 70 years (since the origi= ns of our gliding activity in Chile). Probably we need to analyse and filte= r pilot=C2=B4s personal accident record to start with. No rule, no task, no= weather, no risk involved on that manouver explained the accident...howeve= r it happened. Why?. On last competition day, we had a terrible fatal accident that is under ana= lysis of course, but the terrain where it happened is not the high and "ter= rible mountains" as some pilots are trying to define for this country. An 8= 00 meters airfield at 4 Km distance and +1100 meters altitude as arrival. W= hy it happened???. That is the question we need to answer but probably will= never know. We can guess only and cry in the process. We know racing has a risk. We need to be responsible in managing the risk: = rules, tasks, safety devices, etc., but we will never be in the pilots head= , who finally manages all the factors. On Varesse GP Final there were big complains from a very well known pilot b= ecause minimum arrival altitude rule was too accurate without margin. IGC c= reated a 5 m buffer. In Chile same pilot arrived 2 meters bellow the new bu= ffer altitude (7 meters) and wanted to make a protest for 2 meters. Why pu= shing hard?. Pilots know they have those 5 meters in the pocket and want mo= re. It is the same in all IGC rules...there is always a downside from the p= ilots. =20 On Varesse GP Final a pilot complained about wing load limit of 52 kg/m2 im= posed for two reasons: to equal glider performance and to improve glider ma= neuverability. He wanted IGC to erase this "stupid rule" and to free the wi= ng loading in order to make ASG 29 more competitive against JS1. Flying com= petition in mountains with 56 or 57 kg/m2 is even more dangerous!!!, not 52= .. Now in Chile he says this is the most dangerous competition?. We have to be responsible with our declarations and the consequences, speci= ally taking the opportunity to blame organizers just when a fatal accident = happened. It is not fare for Tomas, and the gliding community he will alway= s be part of. One pilot here mentioned to check Kawa=C2=B4s flights but those in Chile. I= t is not fare for us and it is an insult for all mountain pilots with thous= ands of hours and in any other mountain like Alps, Pyrenees, etc. He flies = in Chile with the same risk than any other competition pilot during the GP.= None of the other 18 pilots flew with more risk than him. He knows how to = fly better the thermals, the final glide is better, he is just better menta= lly and that is why he won. Kawa said in his book that flying in Chile was boring (back in 2010), but f= ew days ago he told me that he wants to take that back after a flight we ha= d together and found to be the most fun and exciting flight he had. Now I am not only sad for our loss, but for the way our Country and the off= icials have been treated in a famous interview at opensoaring. Chile is one of the best places for GP competitions. Have a nice flights and hope you all can fly our beautiful Volcanoes, glaci= ers, lakes and multicolor mountains one day. |
#137
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RIP Tomas Reich - SGP Chile
I too was a competitor at this event and have avoided this debate despite
wanting to react to some insensitive postings with phrases such as "you can't fix stupid". I thought this kind of language inappropriate for Tomas and his family: Tomas was not a "stupid" pilot. I want to support Rene's comments below. I thought the venue was very good for an SGP. The effort the Vitacura club and SGP management put into the event was to be applauded. The tracking system, task setting, ground operations and soaring conditions were all to my mind very good, and of course the time difference worked well for the European audience. Yes there were times when I had "interesting" moments but they were all my responsibility, and I can equally think of several moments when I chose not to take or to abandon climbs as I did not like the picture. Were this incidents of mine the fault of rules or organisers? No, they were a reflection of the risks I personally chose, or chose not, to take. I do not agree with the online criticism of Brian and the SGP organisation. The SGP team were all volunteers and no pilot was forced to fly: all this was done for fun in an amateur sport that is voluntary and carries no big prizes. It's worth remembering that. Rene and Carlos had a phrase I particularly liked: they flew to make new friends, not to win tin trophies. I want to fly in Chile again. The soaring conditions are very good indeed, the scenery is jaw dropping, Chile is a wonderful country and I made many new friends at the Vitacura club. Does any of the above demean the loss of a fellow soaring pilot? Absolutely not. Jon Hi to all, I am one of the pilots that flew the GP in Chile and friend of Tomas, who s= adly died on last day of competition.=20 On training day, there was an accident during a final glide ridge soaring b= ack home (about 20 km) and at least +500 m above Vitacura as arrival. The n= ew and very complex OGN antenna system we made for the mountains, made it p= ossible to find him on time. Mountain ridge slope was not as very high moun= tain side, where we have never had an accident in 70 years (since the origi= ns of our gliding activity in Chile). Probably we need to analyse and filte= r pilot=C2=B4s personal accident record to start with. No rule, no task, no= weather, no risk involved on that manouver explained the accident...howeve= r it happened. Why?. On last competition day, we had a terrible fatal accident that is under ana= lysis of course, but the terrain where it happened is not the high and "ter= rible mountains" as some pilots are trying to define for this country. An 8= 00 meters airfield at 4 Km distance and +1100 meters altitude as arrival. W= hy it happened???. That is the question we need to answer but probably will= never know. We can guess only and cry in the process. We know racing has a risk. We need to be responsible in managing the risk: = rules, tasks, safety devices, etc., but we will never be in the pilots head= , who finally manages all the factors. On Varesse GP Final there were big complains from a very well known pilot b= ecause minimum arrival altitude rule was too accurate without margin. IGC c= reated a 5 m buffer. In Chile same pilot arrived 2 meters bellow the new bu= ffer altitude (7 meters) and wanted to make a protest for 2 meters. Why pu= shing hard?. Pilots know they have those 5 meters in the pocket and want mo= re. It is the same in all IGC rules...there is always a downside from the p= ilots. =20 On Varesse GP Final a pilot complained about wing load limit of 52 kg/m2 im= posed for two reasons: to equal glider performance and to improve glider ma= neuverability. He wanted IGC to erase this "stupid rule" and to free the wi= ng loading in order to make ASG 29 more competitive against JS1. Flying com= petition in mountains with 56 or 57 kg/m2 is even more dangerous!!!, not 52= .. Now in Chile he says this is the most dangerous competition?. We have to be responsible with our declarations and the consequences, speci= ally taking the opportunity to blame organizers just when a fatal accident = happened. It is not fare for Tomas, and the gliding community he will alway= s be part of. One pilot here mentioned to check Kawa=C2=B4s flights but those in Chile. I= t is not fare for us and it is an insult for all mountain pilots with thous= ands of hours and in any other mountain like Alps, Pyrenees, etc. He flies = in Chile with the same risk than any other competition pilot during the GP.= None of the other 18 pilots flew with more risk than him. He knows how to = fly better the thermals, the final glide is better, he is just better menta= lly and that is why he won. Kawa said in his book that flying in Chile was boring (back in 2010), but f= ew days ago he told me that he wants to take that back after a flight we ha= d together and found to be the most fun and exciting flight he had. Now I am not only sad for our loss, but for the way our Country and the off= icials have been treated in a famous interview at opensoaring. Chile is one of the best places for GP competitions. Have a nice flights and hope you all can fly our beautiful Volcanoes, glaci= ers, lakes and multicolor mountains one day. |
#138
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RIP Tomas Reich - SGP Chile
I will take the heat on this because I believe you are using my phrase.
Trust me, I am NOT saying Tomas was stupid, nor am I saying he did something stupid, currently, we don't know. My general comment was, rules don't make people stop doing things that may be considered stupid after the fact. Easy to second guess, you are not the PIC. Many things can allow a very good and conscientious pilot to do something that does not work out ONCE. In flying, the margin from "hero" to "injured/dead" is a very fine line. Getting away with it at times does not mean it will always happen. Gravity and hard ground make a very hard teacher, "you can't but experience but you sure do pay for it". Not my quote, but it's been around for a long time. I still feel for family and friends of Tomas, I am not saying he did anything wrong or he was stupid in decisions. Nor do I feel rules will prevent some "obviously wrong actions" on the part of some pilots whether it was a one time thing or habitual. Again, apologies to anyone if they felt I was degrading Tomas or his decisions. |
#139
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RIP Tomas Reich - SGP Chile
Thanks Charlie - your reply is much appreciated.
Jon At 16:52 01 February 2018, Charlie M. UH & 002 owner/pilot wrote: I will take the heat on this because I believe you are using my phrase. Trust me, I am NOT saying Tomas was stupid, nor am I saying he did something stupid, currently, we don't know. My general comment was, rules don't make people stop doing things that may be considered stupid after the fact. Easy to second guess, you are not the PIC. Many things can allow a very good and conscientious pilot to do something that does not work out ONCE. In flying, the margin from "hero" to "injured/dead" is a very fine line. Getting away with it at times does not mean it will always happen. Gravity and hard ground make a very hard teacher, "you can't but experience but you sure do pay for it". Not my quote, but it's been around for a long time. I still feel for family and friends of Tomas, I am not saying he did anything wrong or he was stupid in decisions. Nor do I feel rules will prevent some "obviously wrong actions" on the part of some pilots whether it was a one time thing or habitual. Again, apologies to anyone if they felt I was degrading Tomas or his decisions. |
#140
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RIP Tomas Reich - SGP Chile
Thanks Charlie - your reply is much appreciated.
Jon At 16:52 01 February 2018, Charlie M. UH & 002 owner/pilot wrote: I will take the heat on this because I believe you are using my phrase. Trust me, I am NOT saying Tomas was stupid, nor am I saying he did something stupid, currently, we don't know. My general comment was, rules don't make people stop doing things that may be considered stupid after the fact. Easy to second guess, you are not the PIC. Many things can allow a very good and conscientious pilot to do something that does not work out ONCE. In flying, the margin from "hero" to "injured/dead" is a very fine line. Getting away with it at times does not mean it will always happen. Gravity and hard ground make a very hard teacher, "you can't but experience but you sure do pay for it". Not my quote, but it's been around for a long time. I still feel for family and friends of Tomas, I am not saying he did anything wrong or he was stupid in decisions. Nor do I feel rules will prevent some "obviously wrong actions" on the part of some pilots whether it was a one time thing or habitual. Again, apologies to anyone if they felt I was degrading Tomas or his decisions. |
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