Nickname for Apache helicopter

"Paul J. Adam" wrote in message
...
In message , Leadfoot
writes
What I heard was that they had done everything on paper to navalise the
AH-64 and then made an offer to the Marines but that was as far as it
went, PAPER.

The UK Apaches are getting qualified for maritime ops offf HMS Ocean or
the CVSs, but that's not full marinisation: rather, detachment as part of
a Tailored Air Group for a specific mission.

I broke my knee in 1997 which ended my stint both at Boeing Mesa (I was on a
contract, not a direct employee) and my crawling around on aircraft. A
small batch of UK Apaches were to be built about 6 months to a year later
with the rest of the production being done in England. It's not a hard
aircraft to build

The AH-64D Longbow starts by taking an A model out of storage,(Cheney
mothballed a lot of them after the wall fell) stripping the fuselage to bare
metal and storing/refurbing the various components removed. Then the fun
part comes with rewiring the the fuselage with brand new wiring along with
whatever mods are needed mechanically. DITMCO (continuity check) the wiring
and then install the old and new black boxes along with rigging the flight
controls. Then off to functional/flight test to wring out the bugs.

The oddest thing was that the longbow radar system uses one of the largest
black boxes I have ever seen on an aircraft. About the size of a coffin for
a 12 year old. Or maybe a large steamer trunk. A two man job to install as
it weighs over 100Lbs. Personally I think that was a mistake

My information is a bit dated and subject to a tad bit of fog ;-)



My understanding was as far as navalisation goes it was easier to stick
with the Cobra and upgrade the weapons and avionics than to make an an
Apache that could withstand long periods in a salt water environment. I'm
guessing but the blades were probably the biggest hang up. You'd have to
mod them to fold and make sure they could handle a salt water environment.

I think the Apache's blades fold (for air transport, at least) but as you
point out, getting the airframe able to stand up to prolonged exposure to
salt spray is a seriously non-trivial issue.

Air transport is done via disassembly of the rotor baldes, not folding. It
was designed for that. I think the standard was flying combat in 12 hours
after an offload.


Again with UK experience, we deploy Joint Force Harrier GR.7s to sea for
specific deployments, but for a committed force we wanted the Sea Harrier;
which wasn't just a case of putting a radar in the nose, but some
surprisingly wide-ranging structural changes such as getting rid of all
the magnesium components (while light and stiff, I'm assured it rots very
fast in a maritime environment)

Exacrly! It's one of those "devil in the details" and I bet even if they
had convinced the Marines to buy some once it was deployed something new
would crop up.



--
The nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its
warriors, will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done
by fools.
-Thucydides


Paul J. Adam - mainbox{at}jrwlynch[dot]demon(dot)codotuk

On May 20, 11:53 pm, "Leadfoot" wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com...





On May 20, 12:40 am, Rob Arndt wrote:
On May 19, 9:03?pm, "Ed" wrote:

"Jim Beaver" wrote in message

t... An online article
suggests, without citation or reference, that the U.S.
Marine Corps nicknamed its Apache helicopter (through three models)
as
"The
Duke," presumably in honor of actor John Wayne.

I cannot find corroboration for this statement in web searches. ?Has
anyone
here with either first-hand or citable evidence to support it ever
heard
this story?

Jim Beaver

Not trying to be ignorant here, but if this is the AH64 Apache, isn't
the
Army the only user, not the Marines??

And old article from 2003 on the Apache and its vunerabilites which is
still valid in 2007:http://www.slate.com/id/2081906/

Iraqi insurgents call the Longbow version the "Broken Bow" and they
are not completely unjustified. This is supposed to be the premiere
armored attack helo on the frontline battlefield forward of our AFVs
and infantry. Instead, they need USAF air cover and rarely are far
from the troops. When they do go out by themselves they are vunerable
to simple AK-47 and RPG fire. Many have been downed and a large amount
damaged enough not to be air worthy until after extensive repairs- and
this is against untrained mobs with small arms. Imagine fighting the
Russians, Chinese, or anyone with equal firepower, missiles, accurate
radar, and emerging anti-helo technologies...

A guy I know was an Apache pilot with the NC NG. This was in
1990-91 and they were disappointed they weren't deployed to Saudi
Arabia. One thing he said stuck with me. It seems the Apaches at his
base got broken into a couple of times so they put padlocks on the
canopies. He said one guy unlocked it and just laid the lock next to
the canopy. He forgot about it and when he took off, the lock flew
back, hit something in the tail rotor, and brought the Apache down.
I have no idea whether this was true, but he said his squadron was
pretty sure the Apaches weren't "small arms proof up to 20mm" as
advertised.

The only thing "small arms proof up to 20mm" is the cockpit. It's similar
in concept to the titanium bathtub found in the A-10. Although there is a
lot more plexiglass

I seem to remember reading that the rotors were supposedly 20mm
proof.....

Was he able to land safely?

Apparently he never got very high....pretty much did some ground
spins...torque is a biatch.






The "Patch-Me" helo needs help...

Rob- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

In message . com,
writes
On May 20, 11:53 pm, "Leadfoot" wrote:
wrote in message
I have no idea whether this was true, but he said his squadron was
pretty sure the Apaches weren't "small arms proof up to 20mm" as
advertised.

The only thing "small arms proof up to 20mm" is the cockpit. It's similar
in concept to the titanium bathtub found in the A-10. Although there is a
lot more plexiglass

I seem to remember reading that the rotors were supposedly 20mm
proof.....

The usual claim I've seen is that the Apache is designed to survive a
couple of hits from up to 23mm HEI (I assume with ZSU-23-4s in mind) -
that's not "23mm proof", but rather "won't crash immediately and can
limp back to base for repairs". Stuff like the gearbox able to run dry
for thirty minutes before eating itself, that kind of thing.

I'm sure there are still spots where one golden bullet can bring it
down, but it's a tough bird as helicopters go.

--
The nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its
warriors, will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done
by fools.
-Thucydides


Paul J. Adam - mainbox{at}jrwlynch[dot]demon(dot)codotuk

In article ,
mumbled
An online article suggests, without citation or reference, that the U.S.
Marine Corps nicknamed its Apache helicopter (through three models) as "The
Duke," presumably in honor of actor John Wayne.

I am curious why they would do so when they do not operate any....



I cannot find corroboration for this statement in web searches. Has anyone
here with either first-hand or citable evidence to support it ever heard
this story?

--
Usenetsaurus n. an early pedantic internet mammal, who survived on a
diet of static text and
cascading "threads."

wrote:
I seem to remember reading that the rotors were supposedly 20mm
proof.....


23 mm resistant.
Soviet's go straight from 14.5 mm to 23 mm with no intermediate step.
Then they hop up to 30 mm, 37mm, and 57 mm.


Pat

Paul J. Adam wrote:

The usual claim I've seen is that the Apache is designed to survive a
couple of hits from up to 23mm HEI (I assume with ZSU-23-4s in mind) -
that's not "23mm proof", but rather "won't crash immediately and can
limp back to base for repairs". Stuff like the gearbox able to run dry
for thirty minutes before eating itself, that kind of thing.

I'm sure there are still spots where one golden bullet can bring it
down, but it's a tough bird as helicopters go.

The Comanche was designed to take a 23 mm hit over anywhere its entire
structure* by using a composite Kevlar reinforced body shell as its
fuselage.
The whole thing was built like a Mosquito bomber, where the monocoque
exterior of its body formed the main structural strength of it, with
only minimal interior reinforcement and bracing. Basically a giant
plastic model helicopter where the fuselage halves are entirely hollow
inside.

* I'd like to see them try that on the cockpit windowpanes, BTW.
Ballistic polycarbonate that's bullet resistant is one thing; ballistic
polycarbonate that's proof against 23 mm HE fire is quite another.
Easy enough to test though...tape a hand grenade onto it, and pull the
pin. :-)

Pat