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#1
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On Topic old tidbit - bummer
While looking for something else, reading site:
http://www.silent-warriors.com/shootdown_list.html I found this bummer: 25 May 1968 A Soviet Tu-16 Badger buzzed a group of US Navy vessels, including the USS Essex (CVS-9), off the coast of northern Norway. Shortly after passing low over the Essex, the Soviet bomber banked and one wing tip hit the sea. The plane then cartwheeled and exploded. There were no survivors. Show-boating, or just routine goof-up? |
#2
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On Topic old tidbit - bummer - another
"a425couple" wrote While looking for something else, reading site: http://www.silent-warriors.com/shootdown_list.html I found this bummer: 25 May 1968 A Soviet Tu-16 Badger buzzed a group of US Navy -- and similarone, "15 July 1964 A Soviet Tu-16 Badger crashed in the Sea of Japan near the USS Bennington, USS Cunningham and USS Eversole." |
#3
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On Topic old tidbit - bummer - another
On Dec 13, 1:52 pm, "a425couple" wrote:
"a425couple" wrote While looking for something else, reading site: http://www.silent-warriors.com/shootdown_list.html I found this bummer: 25 May 1968 A Soviet Tu-16 Badger buzzed a group of US Navy -- and similarone, "15 July 1964 A Soviet Tu-16 Badger crashed in the Sea of Japan near the USS Bennington, USS Cunningham and USS Eversole." Got a cite for that second one? I was in the Sea of Japan on that date. Do not remember any activity like that. |
#4
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On Topic old tidbit - bummer - another
"Jack Linthicum" wrote
"a425couple" wrote: "a425couple" wrote While looking for something else, reading site: http://www.silent-warriors.com/shootdown_list.html I found this bummer: (two different) "25 May 1968 A Soviet Tu-16 Badger buzzed a group of US Navy vessels, including the USS Essex (CVS-9), off the coast of northern Norway. Shortly after passing low over the Essex, the Soviet bomber banked and one wing tip hit the sea. The plane then cartwheeled and exploded. There were no survivors." "15 July 1964 A Soviet Tu-16 Badger crashed in the Sea of Japan near the USS Bennington, USS Cunningham and USS Eversole." Got a cite for that second one? I was in the Sea of Japan on that date. Do not remember any activity like that. My only 'knowledge' is from the cite I posted above. (silent-warriors). If it is in error, (total or detail), I'd kind'a like to be informed, so I can try to remember not to use it again. |
#5
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On Topic old tidbit - bummer - another
On Dec 13, 3:17 pm, "a425couple" wrote:
"Jack Linthicum" wrote "a425couple" wrote: "a425couple" wrote While looking for something else, reading site: http://www.silent-warriors.com/shootdown_list.html I found this bummer: (two different) "25 May 1968 A Soviet Tu-16 Badger buzzed a group of US Navy vessels, including the USS Essex (CVS-9), off the coast of northern Norway. Shortly after passing low over the Essex, the Soviet bomber banked and one wing tip hit the sea. The plane then cartwheeled and exploded. There were no survivors." "15 July 1964 A Soviet Tu-16 Badger crashed in the Sea of Japan near the USS Bennington, USS Cunningham and USS Eversole." Got a cite for that second one? I was in the Sea of Japan on that date. Do not remember any activity like that. My only 'knowledge' is from the cite I posted above. (silent-warriors). If it is in error, (total or detail), I'd kind'a like to be informed, so I can try to remember not to use it again. There seems to be no way it is right, the Bennington and escorts would have been fairly noticeable. I stumbled across a semi-famous person's oral account of my trip if you are interested in why I think it didn't happen that way. http://www.sos.ca.gov/archives/pdf/BGregory.pdf p26-30 |
#6
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On Topic old tidbit - seems valid?
"Jack Linthicum" wrote
"a425couple" wrote: "a425couple" wrote While looking for something else, reading site: http://www.silent-warriors.com/shootdown_list.html I found this bummer: 25 May 1968 A Soviet Tu-16 Badger buzzed a group of US Navy -- and similarone, "15 July 1964 A Soviet Tu-16 Badger crashed in the Sea of Japan near the USS Bennington, USS Cunningham and USS Eversole." Got a cite for that second one? I was in the Sea of Japan on that date. Do not remember any activity like that. Well, a second source seems to be at: http://www.aiipowmia.com/koreacw/cwwg96d.html where it says in part: "Page 72 The U.S. side of the Commission also presented information on the 25 May 1968 crash of a Soviet Tu-16 "Badger" in the Norwegian Sea. During working group sessions held in April 1995, the U.S. side turned over the Deck Log and Command History of the U.S.S. Essex for May 1968. At the Twelfth Plenary Session in August 1995, the U.S. side passed to the Russian side film footage of the crash of the Tu-16 taken from the U.S.S. Essex as well as a written eyewitness testimony of this incident. In April 1995, during working group sessions, the U.S. side passed over the deck logs of the U.S.S. Bennington from 1 July 64 to 31 July 1964, the deck log of the U.S.S. Cunningham from 14 July 1964 to 16 July 1964 and the deck log of the U.S.S. Eversole from 14 July 1964 to 16 July 1964. These deck logs all pertain to the crash of a Soviet Tu-16r "Badger" on 15 July 1964 in the Sea of Japan." and a third source: http://www.dtic.mil/dpmo/sovietunion...jc_apr_rpt.htm that states in part: "The U.S. side has provided videotape, artifacts, and a formal report by the U.S. Co-Chairman of the Commission in plenary session on the loss of the Soviet Golf-class submarine which sank in 1968. The U.S. has also provided information, deck logs and videotape on the 25 May 1968 crash of the Soviet Tu-16 Badger in the Norwegian Sea; deck logs of U.S. naval units in the vicinity of a 15 July 1964 Soviet Tu-16 Badger crash in the Sea of Japan; documents and photograph relating to the loss of a Soviet twin-engine bomber on 4 September 1950 off the coast of Korea; and information on Soviet advisers captured in the Ogaden in 1978." So, cynical as I may be of misinformation on the internet getting dispersed wildly, these seem at current glance to be widely separated from seemingly valid enough sources. |
#7
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On Topic old tidbit - seems valid?
On Dec 13, 9:18 pm, "a425couple" wrote:
"Jack Linthicum" wrote "a425couple" wrote: "a425couple" wrote While looking for something else, reading site: http://www.silent-warriors.com/shootdown_list.html I found this bummer: 25 May 1968 A Soviet Tu-16 Badger buzzed a group of US Navy -- and similarone, "15 July 1964 A Soviet Tu-16 Badger crashed in the Sea of Japan near the USS Bennington, USS Cunningham and USS Eversole." Got a cite for that second one? I was in the Sea of Japan on that date. Do not remember any activity like that. Well, a second source seems to be at:http://www.aiipowmia.com/koreacw/cwwg96d.html where it says in part: "Page 72 The U.S. side of the Commission also presented information on the 25 May 1968 crash of a Soviet Tu-16 "Badger" in the Norwegian Sea. During working group sessions held in April 1995, the U.S. side turned over the Deck Log and Command History of the U.S.S. Essex for May 1968. At the Twelfth Plenary Session in August 1995, the U.S. side passed to the Russian side film footage of the crash of the Tu-16 taken from the U.S.S. Essex as well as a written eyewitness testimony of this incident. In April 1995, during working group sessions, the U.S. side passed over the deck logs of the U.S.S. Bennington from 1 July 64 to 31 July 1964, the deck log of the U.S.S. Cunningham from 14 July 1964 to 16 July 1964 and the deck log of the U.S.S. Eversole from 14 July 1964 to 16 July 1964. These deck logs all pertain to the crash of a Soviet Tu-16r "Badger" on 15 July 1964 in the Sea of Japan." and a third source:http://www.dtic.mil/dpmo/sovietunion...jc_apr_rpt.htm that states in part: "The U.S. side has provided videotape, artifacts, and a formal report by the U.S. Co-Chairman of the Commission in plenary session on the loss of the Soviet Golf-class submarine which sank in 1968. The U.S. has also provided information, deck logs and videotape on the 25 May 1968 crash of the Soviet Tu-16 Badger in the Norwegian Sea; deck logs of U.S. naval units in the vicinity of a 15 July 1964 Soviet Tu-16 Badger crash in the Sea of Japan; documents and photograph relating to the loss of a Soviet twin-engine bomber on 4 September 1950 off the coast of Korea; and information on Soviet advisers captured in the Ogaden in 1978." So, cynical as I may be of misinformation on the internet getting dispersed wildly, these seem at current glance to be widely separated from seemingly valid enough sources. This is a little bit like hearing that there was a major car crash on your street 43 years later. If you read the oral history the ship I was on did a "stealth" run up to the Vladivostok area. We were copying the fleet covered broadcast, it is very unlikely--like impossible-- that something like a Tu-16 crash in plain sight of three U.S. warships, also operating in the Sea of Japan, would have failed to be sent on that. We were getting drunken sailor arrests in the Philipines and Vietnam events as well as the classified stuff. Makes you wonder. |
#8
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OT old tidbit - valid +
"Jack Linthicum" wrote
"a425couple" wrote: "Jack Linthicum" wrote "a425couple" wrote: "a425couple" wrote While looking for something else, reading site: http://www.silent-warriors.com/shootdown_list.html I found this bummer: 25 May 1968 A Soviet Tu-16 Badger buzzed a group of US Navy -- "15 July 1964 A Soviet Tu-16 Badger crashed in the Sea of Japan near the USS Bennington, USS Cunningham and USS Eversole." Got a cite for that second one? I was in the Sea of Japan on that date. Do not remember any activity like that. Well, a second source : http://www.aiipowmia.com/koreacw/cwwg96d.html says in part: In April 1995, during working group sessions, the U.S. side passed over the deck logs of the U.S.S. Bennington from 1 July 64 to 31 July 1964, the deck log of the U.S.S. Cunningham from 14 July 1964 to 16 July 1964 and the deck log of the U.S.S. Eversole from 14 July 1964 to 16 July 1964. These deck logs all pertain to the crash of a Soviet Tu-16r "Badger" on 15 July 1964 in the Sea of Japan." and a third source:http://www.dtic.mil/dpmo/sovietunion...jc_apr_rpt.htm that states in part: "The U.S. side has provided videotape, artifacts, and a formal report by the U.S. Co-Chairman of the Commission in plenary session on the loss --- deck logs of U.S. naval units in the vicinity of a 15 July 1964 Soviet Tu-16 Badger crash in the Sea of Japan; So, cynical as I may be of misinformation on the internet getting dispersed wildly, these seem at current glance to be widely separated from seemingly valid enough sources. This is a little bit like hearing that there was a major car crash on your street 43 years later. If you read the oral history the ship I was on did a "stealth" run up to the Vladivostok area. We were copying the fleet covered broadcast, it is very unlikely--like impossible-- that something like a Tu-16 crash in plain sight of three U.S. warships, also operating in the Sea of Japan, would have failed to be sent on that. We were getting drunken sailor arrests in the Philipines and Vietnam events as well as the classified stuff. Makes you wonder. Dear Jack, (who I always want to consider a friend - even when we respectfully disagree on things) You say, "very unlikely - like impossible -" You wanted a cite, I've given you 3 pretty solid ones. Without searching further (seems pointless), It seems quite solid that it happened. Your only reason to disagree seems to be that you didn't know. Offhand, I'd suggest what I regularly give myself, dose of humbleness and awareness that: 1. My memory may not be as good as I wish (or as it once was?) and/or 2. although we have both held pretty 'informed' positions, that does not mean we knew everything. Lightly trying to move on: Yeah, I remember those "drunken sailor arrests in the Philipines" reports from that time I spent filling a fairly high Major's billet staff position in a overseas MarDiv. There are a lot of full bird Col. in the USMC. But there are only 9 infantry Regiments, so command of one is VERY sought after and coveted. Well, we had recently had Cmd. Gen., change of command. Then this new Col. arrives and has change of command ceremony taking command of a Regt. Very soon after (that night? within a week!), he gets caught by MPs driving drunk (too good a wetting down party!). I do not remember if it was later that morning, or if it next day after he'd had time to sober up/understand. But he was brought to Div. HQ to meet with CG. He left in hurry, to catch plane to his next duty station - Adack, Alaska (to contemplate when to turn in his request for retirement papers -- flush). Pretty clear message was sent from CG to Div. I do not believe that report was ever listed along with those "drunken sailor arrests in the Philipines". |
#9
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On Topic old tidbit - bummer
"a425couple" wrote in message ... While looking for something else, reading site: http://www.silent-warriors.com/shootdown_list.html I found this bummer: 25 May 1968 A Soviet Tu-16 Badger buzzed a group of US Navy vessels, including the USS Essex (CVS-9), off the coast of northern Norway. Shortly after passing low over the Essex, the Soviet bomber banked and one wing tip hit the sea. The plane then cartwheeled and exploded. There were no survivors. Show-boating, or just routine goof-up? both. |
#10
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On Topic old tidbit - bummer
On Dec 13, 2:27 pm, "Ray O'Hara" wrote:
"a425couple" wrote in message ... While looking for something else, reading site: http://www.silent-warriors.com/shootdown_list.html I found this bummer: 25 May 1968 A Soviet Tu-16 Badger buzzed a group of US Navy vessels, including the USS Essex (CVS-9), off the coast of northern Norway. Shortly after passing low over the Essex, the Soviet bomber banked and one wing tip hit the sea. The plane then cartwheeled and exploded. There were no survivors. Show-boating, or just routine goof-up? both. Neither, didn't happen, Benny-boy wasn't in the Sea of Japan on that day and if a Soviet aircraft had crashed within sight of an American ship there would have noise up and down the Asian Coast.The Tonkin Gulf incident would not have taken place because no one would have sent the Maddox in. That was about Jul;y 28. |
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