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Regarding Mike Schumann's comment predicting UAVs will be equipped with UAT, at least one company offering new equipment aimed at UAVs doesn't agree. Check out the new offerings from Sagetech he http://www.sagetechcorp.com/unmanned.../#.VSZ9SPDNrkc

As you can see, they offer Mode S, Mode S with ADS-B Out and Mode S with ADS-B Out and GPS, but there is no mention of UAT. Mike, you may want to call them and explain what a huge mistake they're making.

-John, Q3

On Thursday, April 9, 2015 at 2:12:08 AM UTC-4, Mike Schumann wrote:
What's with the insulting hysteria in your posts?

I am not recommending that anyone buy UAT based ADS-B OUT transmitters. The way the market is headed, the smartest choice for glider pilots may very well be going the 1090ES route.

What I am pointing out is that UAT is part of the system. There will be aircraft and UAVs out there that are UAT ADS-B OUT equipped and may not have conventional transponders. How many is anyone's guess at this time. Neither you nor I have any significant influence on what other pilots buy. This will be determined by market forces and the individual preferences of the various A/C owners.

The only thing that I am saying is that, if you are buying any avionics that includes ADS-B IN, make sure it supports both UAT and 1090ES. This can be accomplished by having a dual frequency receiver, or by correctly handling TIS-B and ADS-B R transmissions received from ADS-B ground stations.

If you are thinking about buying POWERFLARM, you need to move forward with your eyes wide open and understand that as currently implemented, you will not be seeing UAT ADS-B OUT equipped aircraft. You will also not be getting weather and notam data that is a standard feature of competitive low cost ADS-B IN products. If you want to spend money on a half baked solution like this, that's totally your call.

On Thursday, April 9, 2015 at 6:40:27 AM UTC-7, John Carlyle wrote:
Regarding Mike Schumann's comment predicting UAVs will be equipped with UAT, at least one company offering new equipment aimed at UAVs doesn't agree.. Check out the new offerings from Sagetech he http://www.sagetechcorp.com/unmanned.../#.VSZ9SPDNrkc

As you can see, they offer Mode S, Mode S with ADS-B Out and Mode S with ADS-B Out and GPS, but there is no mention of UAT. Mike, you may want to call them and explain what a huge mistake they're making.

-John, Q3


Also it would be good to be more clear about terminology. UAV, while a generic term, is often used to describe military remotely piloted aircraft and/or autonomous vehicles. Typically you'll find these in the US in MOAs or Restricted areas at a wide variety of speeds and altitudes under reasonably controlled conditions. At least one vendor is using 1090ES on these aircraft.. The main purpose is to make UAVs visible to ATC radar so 1090ES is likely a better choice since it will be new installations where 1090ES gives transponder as well as GP position capability. I seriously doubt that UAT would be viewed as suitable.

Personal drones are increasingly numerous and fly today all over the US, generally below 400' if they're legal - occasionally above. They are probably of the greatest risk to gliders if they fly near glider airports. At $300 up to several thousand $, cost, size and power consumption are critical considerations for any traffic warning technology. It's my understanding that Flarm is in discussions with manufacturers of these.

As to commercial drones delivering packages for Amazon, I'd not worry too much about that yet. If and when it comes it will likely be of greater risk to your cat than to your glider. I'm not sure what technology Amazon wants to use, though cost, size and weight will likely be concerns. I suspect if/when autonomous flight is allowed it won't be allowed near airports or above 400'.

Andy

"I think you have a fundamental and dangerous misunderstanding...."

You're having a laugh, right? Taking the Mickey? Pulling my leg?

You can't possibly be standing on the 'PIC rule' to justify your position.

My comment was, is and will remain to be, in relation to TCAS as you erroneously claimed its use for traffic separation. TA's are to to be responded to as it can create a 'Lord of the Flies' effect. Like 1 driver swerving across 3 lanes of a packed LA freeway. Chaos. When you have multiple aircraft at minimum separation with hundreds of people on board each one, you don't want one idiot going rogue and creating more conflicts than he solves.

If it was a non-transponder equipped glider you wouldn't get a TA to begin with so the point is moot.

Beeeeeep! Sh--t Glance down Red dot 12:00 O'clock same altitude. Turn sort it out on the radio with the other pilot. Investment in FLARM fully amortized.
7D

Not only has Sagetech already got impressive Mode-C/mode-S/1090ES out hardware that scales down to relatively small drones, but again to harp on TSO-C199... That provides a model for potentially getting some of this stuff in manned aircraft. That new TSO provides a path for manufacturers to build low-power Mode-S/1090ES devices that use non-TSO GPS sources, and not just "meets requirements of" GPS sources but stuff actually based on more consumer GPS technology. We could eventually see that in certified gliders and to interact fully with TCAS the 1090ES receivers and the ADS-B ground infrastructure. But I suspect if anything that TSO will actually morph into use in the UAV market. Which is great for TCAS and for glider pilots with direct compatibility with PowerFLARM 1090ES In. So I don't want to hype futures, and nothing at all may come from this that affect gliders....it is more just an interesting sign that non-Transponder UAT-Out only solutions are dead and buried. If you fly near airliners and fast jets, and maybe lots of GA traffic please do not put off considering installing a transponder because of future technology speculation.

Oh yes and FLARM was a direct inspiration for the FAA developing TSO-C199.... :-)

Not only has Sagetech already got impressive Mode-C/mode-S/1090ES out hardware that scales down to relatively small drones, but again to harp on TSO-C199... That provides a model for potentially getting some of this stuff in manned aircraft. That new TSO provides a path for manufacturers to build low-power Mode-S/1090ES devices that use non-TSO GPS sources, and not just "meets requirements of" GPS sources but stuff actually based on more consumer GPS technology. We could eventually see that in certified gliders and to interact fully with TCAS the 1090ES receivers and the ADS-B ground infrastructure. But I suspect if anything that TSO will actually morph into use in the UAV market. Which is great for TCAS and for glider pilots with direct compatibility with PowerFLARM 1090ES In. So I don't want to hype futures, and nothing at all may come from this that affect gliders....it is more just an interesting sign that non-Transponder UAT-Out only solutions are dead and buried. If you fly near airliners and fast jets, and maybe lots of GA traffic please do not put off considering installing a transponder because of future technology speculation.

Oh yes and FLARM was a direct inspiration for the FAA developing TSO-C199.... :-)

On Wednesday, April 8, 2015 at 7:27:06 PM UTC-5, Bob Pasker wrote:

did the transponder in that plane display pressure altitude, like my KTX-76? if so, did it show the wrong altitude? the right altitude? and when you realized what happened, did you call approach or center and ask for an altimeter readout?

Bob, it's an older Mode A/C transponder that doesn't show the pressure altitude it is transmitting. After we cycled it off and on a couple of times, my PCAS started to show the correct altitude, so we assumed that we had "fixed" whatever the problem was. Owners of the RV-6 are now shopping for a new xponder, by the way, and have already bought a PCAS device very similar to my out-of-production MRX.

Kirk
66

On Wednesday, March 25, 2015 at 8:03:03 PM UTC-7, Bill T wrote:
Darryl, I've been looking and for most standard certificated aircraft, not experimental, it takes STC to install ADS-B equipment. A couple of STCs I have found do not list the Piper Pawnee, PA-25. Any Pawnee I have seen is registered under Restricted category. Any ideas?
BillT

Bill

Just as a heads up, here is another Mode-S/1090ES Out transponder coming with internal GPS. http://ipadpilotnews.com/2015/04/new...-b-transponder and https://www.appareo.com/aviation/ads-b-out

Details are very sparse, but it is apparently intended for install in certified aircraft, at a ~$3,500 unit price.

I am a bit skeptical about the button only UI, especially for use in turbulence with the ON/OFF/ALT/VFR/etc buttons so close to each other. Anyhow hopefully part of a trend of better product availability for those tow planes that need to meet the 2020 ADS-B carriage mandate.

(and for others I would not assume this is at all suitable for install in gliders, too large, and it is likely has too high a power consumption).

Darryl

On Thursday, April 9, 2015 at 1:03:26 PM UTC-7, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Wednesday, March 25, 2015 at 8:03:03 PM UTC-7, Bill T wrote:
Darryl, I've been looking and for most standard certificated aircraft, not experimental, it takes STC to install ADS-B equipment. A couple of STCs I have found do not list the Piper Pawnee, PA-25. Any Pawnee I have seen is registered under Restricted category. Any ideas?
BillT

Bill

Just as a heads up, here is another Mode-S/1090ES Out transponder coming with internal GPS. http://ipadpilotnews.com/2015/04/new...-b-transponder and https://www.appareo.com/aviation/ads-b-out


I thought the following excerpt from the press release was interesting, and consistent with the view that installation cost and complexity are significant factors that might advantage 1090ES over UAT even for aircraft that aren't required to carry 1090ES by rule:

"Appareo also recognized that the cost and complexity to install many of the existing ADS-B Out transponders is exceedingly high, so they focused on developing a system that would be simple for avionics shop to install. Stratus ESG connects directly to the existing belly-mounted transponder antenna and also includes a WAAS GPS antenna. For typical single-engine piston aircraft, Stratus ESG will require approximately half the installation time as compared to a remote-mounted 978 Mhz UAT ADS-B Out system."

Thanks!
That is a promising option.
As for the buttons so close, check out the Garmin transponders with all the buttons in a circle.

BillT