Carrying Skis in a Single...

Hey Guys,

I'm in plane-search mode after recently passing my check flight.

One of the number one uses I want for the aircraft is to be able to
make VFR flights up to Tahoe in the winter for ski trips (hopefully
regularly, as the weather permits).

As such, I have a pretty basic question-

What singles would you reccommend to be able to carry a load of 2 (or
possibly 3, with one being my very petite (105lb) Fiancee) people and a
load of baggage and Skis (the big issues imho) from The Bay Area to
Tahoe...

the plane that initially grabbed me was the Cessna 177A or B... Fixed
gear, a huge cabin (By inexpensive single standards), and 1000lbs of
payload (figure 250 each for passengers + baggage, and a
more-than-adequate 250lb fuel load).

Unfortunately, Cardinals seem to be be suffering a re-surgence of
demand lately... And the two I've looked at so far have had noticable
Wingtip Spar corrosion issues (although one owner swears he will fix it
his cost before selling).

Other options-

Piper Commanche 180... I trained in a 160, I have to say I like the
type (ergonomics and feel) FAR more than the Cessna Birds (177 is ok,
but I physically have issues properly operating the pedals of the 172
because I have such long legs, and the 182 for some reason doesn't
interest me in the slightest (something about the whole 'flying truck'
thing is completely unappealing). About once a week I completely fall
in infatuation with Moonies, with Several M20C's and M20E's being in my
45-55k price range... but then I remember that I want to be able to
share the fun with other people too:-P

I guess my question is- A- Have any of you found a comfortable/safe way
to carry skis in a Commanche 180? How about a Cherokee 180 (and if so,
how reliable is its Gear system?)

Is there any chance in hell that 3 people plus a weekends worth of gear
would fit into a M20C/E? IS there some other reason I should avoid them
(other than my natural tendency to prefer Fixed gear for
cost/maintenence reasons).

Anything else I should consider?

Thanks.

Single-engine from the California Bay area to Tahoe during
ski season [winter] requires a big enough airplane and
useful load to carry fuel, passengers, ski clothing, skis,
and survival equipment. Suggest a Cherokee Six or similar.
They is probably an STC for a tube baggage extender that
will be hung in the tail cone to carry the skis.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"EridanMan" wrote in message
ps.com...
| Hey Guys,
|
| I'm in plane-search mode after recently passing my check
flight.
|
| One of the number one uses I want for the aircraft is to
be able to
| make VFR flights up to Tahoe in the winter for ski trips
(hopefully
| regularly, as the weather permits).
|
| As such, I have a pretty basic question-
|
| What singles would you reccommend to be able to carry a
load of 2 (or
| possibly 3, with one being my very petite (105lb) Fiancee)
people and a
| load of baggage and Skis (the big issues imho) from The
Bay Area to
| Tahoe...
|
| the plane that initially grabbed me was the Cessna 177A or
B... Fixed
| gear, a huge cabin (By inexpensive single standards), and
1000lbs of
| payload (figure 250 each for passengers + baggage, and a
| more-than-adequate 250lb fuel load).
|
| Unfortunately, Cardinals seem to be be suffering a
re-surgence of
| demand lately... And the two I've looked at so far have
had noticable
| Wingtip Spar corrosion issues (although one owner swears
he will fix it
| his cost before selling).
|
| Other options-
|
| Piper Commanche 180... I trained in a 160, I have to say I
like the
| type (ergonomics and feel) FAR more than the Cessna Birds
(177 is ok,
| but I physically have issues properly operating the pedals
of the 172
| because I have such long legs, and the 182 for some reason
doesn't
| interest me in the slightest (something about the whole
'flying truck'
| thing is completely unappealing). About once a week I
completely fall
| in infatuation with Moonies, with Several M20C's and
M20E's being in my
| 45-55k price range... but then I remember that I want to
be able to
| share the fun with other people too:-P
|
| I guess my question is- A- Have any of you found a
comfortable/safe way
| to carry skis in a Commanche 180? How about a Cherokee
180 (and if so,
| how reliable is its Gear system?)
|
| Is there any chance in hell that 3 people plus a weekends
worth of gear
| would fit into a M20C/E? IS there some other reason I
should avoid them
| (other than my natural tendency to prefer Fixed gear for
| cost/maintenence reasons).
|
| Anything else I should consider?
|
| Thanks.
|

("Jim Macklin" wrote)
Single-engine from the California Bay area to Tahoe during ski season
[winter] requires a big enough airplane and useful load to carry fuel,
passengers, ski clothing, skis, and survival
equipment.


Would a Navion fit the bill?


Montblack

Don't know about the tail cone size and whether there is a
baggage modification. It probably has the weight capacity,
but I'm not sure about the seating and baggage space.

There is always FedEx and UPS.


Just remember that you need warm survival clothes, ski wear
is not adequate for staying alive after a forced landing. I
don't recall the name, but a decade ago, maybe a little
longer the president of a pilot group made a perfect forced
landing on a lake. Everyone on the plane was uninjured and
froze to death.



--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Montblack" wrote in
message ...
| ("Jim Macklin" wrote)
| Single-engine from the California Bay area to Tahoe
during ski season
| [winter] requires a big enough airplane and useful load
to carry fuel,
| passengers, ski clothing, skis, and survival
| equipment.
|
|
| Would a Navion fit the bill?
|
|
| Montblack
|

On Sat, 6 May 2006 03:13:47 -0500, "Jim Macklin"
wrote:

Just remember that you need warm survival clothes,

My flight instructor told me: "Just remember that any crosscountry
flight is volunteering for an overnight in the woods."

And that's in New Hampshire



-- all the best, Dan Ford

email: usenet AT danford DOT net

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

Yeah, try ski blades. They'll fit in any GA airplane. I didn't think I'd
like them, but they are great. I bought a set for my two sons and myself
this past fall. It's like power steering was added to a regular set of
skis. And they're cheap, too.

"EridanMan" wrote in message
ps.com...
Hey Guys,

I'm in plane-search mode after recently passing my check flight.

One of the number one uses I want for the aircraft is to be able to
make VFR flights up to Tahoe in the winter for ski trips (hopefully
regularly, as the weather permits).

As such, I have a pretty basic question-

What singles would you reccommend to be able to carry a load of 2 (or
possibly 3, with one being my very petite (105lb) Fiancee) people and a
load of baggage and Skis (the big issues imho) from The Bay Area to
Tahoe...

the plane that initially grabbed me was the Cessna 177A or B... Fixed
gear, a huge cabin (By inexpensive single standards), and 1000lbs of
payload (figure 250 each for passengers + baggage, and a
more-than-adequate 250lb fuel load).

Unfortunately, Cardinals seem to be be suffering a re-surgence of
demand lately... And the two I've looked at so far have had noticable
Wingtip Spar corrosion issues (although one owner swears he will fix it
his cost before selling).

Other options-

Piper Commanche 180... I trained in a 160, I have to say I like the
type (ergonomics and feel) FAR more than the Cessna Birds (177 is ok,
but I physically have issues properly operating the pedals of the 172
because I have such long legs, and the 182 for some reason doesn't
interest me in the slightest (something about the whole 'flying truck'
thing is completely unappealing). About once a week I completely fall
in infatuation with Moonies, with Several M20C's and M20E's being in my
45-55k price range... but then I remember that I want to be able to
share the fun with other people too:-P

I guess my question is- A- Have any of you found a comfortable/safe way
to carry skis in a Commanche 180? How about a Cherokee 180 (and if so,
how reliable is its Gear system?)

Is there any chance in hell that 3 people plus a weekends worth of gear
would fit into a M20C/E? IS there some other reason I should avoid them
(other than my natural tendency to prefer Fixed gear for
cost/maintenence reasons).

Anything else I should consider?

Thanks.

Even if you don't smoke, carry a Zippo that has just been
refilled with fluid and has spare flints. Even if you don't
like knives, carry at least two. BTW, don't carry the Zippo
in your pants pocket, the vapor will burn your skin, use
some type of belt carrier.

A handheld GPS may get you to the nearest help.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Cub Driver" usenet AT danford DOT net wrote in message
...
| On Sat, 6 May 2006 03:13:47 -0500, "Jim Macklin"
| wrote:
|
| Just remember that you need warm survival clothes,
|
| My flight instructor told me: "Just remember that any
crosscountry
| flight is volunteering for an overnight in the woods."
|
| And that's in New Hampshire
|
|
|
| -- all the best, Dan Ford
|
| email: usenet AT danford DOT net
|
| Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
| Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
| In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

On 5 May 2006 19:07:01 -0700, "EridanMan"
wrote:

Hey Guys,

I'm in plane-search mode after recently passing my check flight.

One of the number one uses I want for the aircraft is to be able to
make VFR flights up to Tahoe in the winter for ski trips (hopefully
regularly, as the weather permits).

Anything else I should consider?


Find a storage locker in Tahoe to keep all your ski equipment at for
the winter or just carry your boots and rent skis when you get there
or build a murphy moose and take all your stuff

"soxinbox" wrote in message
...
I know this used to be critically important, but is this still necessary in
today's environment with hand held GPS and cell phones with built in
tracking. If I call 911 with exact coordinates, will I really have to wait
the night.

It depends. Having GPS and a cell phone certainly improves your odds.
But...

Airplanes are very good at getting a person away from cell phone service.
You may not be able to contact anyone with your cell phone. This is
probably the biggest hole in your idea; cell phone coverage is still quite
limited away from urban areas in the US. Take a satellite phone if you want
near-certainty of being able to contact someone.

Of course, it's entirely possible for the GPS and/or the phone to become
disabled in the crash. There's no guarantee that any or all of your
equipment will still be usable after a crash (this is even true for the
survival equipment).

Even if you can contact someone, knowing your precise coordinates may not
ensure that you are found promptly, if you've crashed into a stand of trees
in a way that hides your position (for example). Even if you are found
promptly, rescuers may or may not be able to pick you up promptly, depending
on the weather (which might prevent aerial rescue), available equipment, and
terrain (which might prevent or dramatically slow ground-based rescue).

I have readily admit to having tempted fate myself, not always having the
necessary survival gear along to cover every eventuality. But I did so
knowing the risk. I think it would be naive to think that there's any way
for the pilot or passengers to ensure without fail a prompt rescue. There
are just too many factors not under the control of the pilot or passengers.
One can improve the chances of a prompt rescue, but there's always a way for
those chances to fail.

Pete

"Peter Duniho" wrote:
Airplanes are very good at getting a person away from cell phone
service. You may not be able to contact anyone with your cell phone.
This is probably the biggest hole in your idea; cell phone coverage is
still quite limited away from urban areas in the US. Take a satellite
phone if you want near-certainty of being able to contact someone.

Any advantage to having a satellite phone and a handheld GPS versus a 406
MHz ELT (the ones capable of being detected by satellites)? I would think
the ELT accomplishes almost the same purpose and is designed to handle some
crashes, whereas a satellite phone and GPS unit likely aren't all that
rugged.