Bad landings

I went up today to practice crosswind landings. The wind was about down the
runway at my home airport so I went to Sky Manor (N40). This airport has a
2500x50 foot runway and requires vigilence in gusty winds. I did 2 landings
and 1 go around (due to the gusty wind) using runway 25 at Sky Manor with a
90 degree crosswind of about 12-15 knots gusting to about 18-20kt. The
landings here were pretty good.

Well, I went back to my home airport and the wind was still mostly down the
runway, but variable and gusty (in retrospect). Well, I built up too much
speed (the approach is over trees and there was a bit of an updraft, plus I
was a little high and probably subconsciously dove for the runway) and
floated in the flare. The gusts caused the airplane to balloon and I was
able to recover once, then it ballooned again and I should have gone around.
However, I tried to save it and as I came down I added a bit of power to
soften the landing, quickly began to balloon even higher and found myself
very nose high, very little airspeed, and was heading off the runway due to
a crosswind combined with low airspeed. I immediatly applied full power,
lowered the nose to get some airspeed, and went around. Had I waited much
longer to go around, the aircraft would soon have stalled 20 feet above the
ground. Basically, I recovered from an imminent approach to landing stall
20 feet above the ground. This is not a good situation to get yourself in,
to say the least.

This scared me pretty good. I was complacent at my home airport because I
am used to landing there, the runway is long, and the wind was basically
down the runway. I fully expected variable gusty wind at Sky Manor and
expected to go around resulting in me making a good early decision to go
around when necessary, while I tried to recover from a poor approach at my
home airport when I should have gone around earlier.

In retrospect, I made some poor decisions, but ultimately had a safe outcome
by making the right decision at the last second.

I was complacent at my home airport because I
am used to landing there, the runway is long, and the wind was basically
down the runway. I fully expected variable gusty wind at Sky Manor...

What's your home airport? I'm at Danbury, you too?

Jose
--
Get high on gasoline: fly an airplane.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jim Jones" wrote in message
...
I went up today to practice crosswind landings. The wind was about down
the runway at my home airport so I went to Sky Manor (N40). This airport
has a 2500x50 foot runway and requires vigilence in gusty winds. I did 2
landings and 1 go around (due to the gusty wind) using runway 25 at Sky
Manor with a 90 degree crosswind of about 12-15 knots gusting to about
18-20kt. The landings here were pretty good.

Well, I went back to my home airport and the wind was still mostly down
the runway, but variable and gusty (in retrospect). Well, I built up too
much speed (the approach is over trees and there was a bit of an updraft,
plus I was a little high and probably subconsciously dove for the runway)
and floated in the flare. The gusts caused the airplane to balloon and I
was able to recover once, then it ballooned again and I should have gone
around. However, I tried to save it and as I came down I added a bit of
power to soften the landing, quickly began to balloon even higher and
found myself very nose high, very little airspeed, and was heading off the
runway due to a crosswind combined with low airspeed. I immediatly
applied full power, lowered the nose to get some airspeed, and went
around. Had I waited much longer to go around, the aircraft would soon
have stalled 20 feet above the ground. Basically, I recovered from an
imminent approach to landing stall 20 feet above the ground. This is not
a good situation to get yourself in, to say the least.

This scared me pretty good. I was complacent at my home airport because I
am used to landing there, the runway is long, and the wind was basically
down the runway. I fully expected variable gusty wind at Sky Manor and
expected to go around resulting in me making a good early decision to go
around when necessary, while I tried to recover from a poor approach at my
home airport when I should have gone around earlier.

In retrospect, I made some poor decisions, but ultimately had a safe
outcome by making the right decision at the last second.


I had a rash of bad night landings and decided that I forgot what the hell
to do and took an instructor with me a few days later. Made a huge
difference and I got my confidence back and my night landings improved
hugely. Try taking an instructor to the airport you are having troubles at
and see if they can provide some insight, worked for me.

-----------------------------------------------------------
DW

This scared me pretty good. I was complacent at my home airport because I
am used to landing there, the runway is long, and the wind was basically
down the runway. I fully expected variable gusty wind at Sky Manor and
expected to go around resulting in me making a good early decision to go
around when necessary, while I tried to recover from a poor approach at my
home airport when I should have gone around earlier.

In retrospect, I made some poor decisions, but ultimately had a safe outcome
by making the right decision at the last second.

I always approach a landing with the intent to go around... If I
actually land I consider it a bonus. :-)


The Ultimate BBS!
Telnet://ubbs2006.synchro.net
HTTP://ubbs2006.synchro.net:81

Jim Jones wrote:
I went up today to practice crosswind landings. The wind was about down the
runway at my home airport so I went to Sky Manor (N40). This airport has a
2500x50 foot runway and requires vigilence in gusty winds. I did 2 landings
and 1 go around (due to the gusty wind) using runway 25 at Sky Manor with a
90 degree crosswind of about 12-15 knots gusting to about 18-20kt. The
landings here were pretty good.

Well, I went back to my home airport and the wind was still mostly down the
runway, but variable and gusty (in retrospect). Well, I built up too much
speed (the approach is over trees and there was a bit of an updraft, plus I
was a little high and probably subconsciously dove for the runway) and
floated in the flare. The gusts caused the airplane to balloon and I was
able to recover once, then it ballooned again and I should have gone around.
However, I tried to save it and as I came down I added a bit of power to
soften the landing, quickly began to balloon even higher and found myself
very nose high, very little airspeed, and was heading off the runway due to
a crosswind combined with low airspeed. I immediatly applied full power,
lowered the nose to get some airspeed, and went around. Had I waited much
longer to go around, the aircraft would soon have stalled 20 feet above the
ground. Basically, I recovered from an imminent approach to landing stall
20 feet above the ground. This is not a good situation to get yourself in,
to say the least.

This scared me pretty good. I was complacent at my home airport because I
am used to landing there, the runway is long, and the wind was basically
down the runway. I fully expected variable gusty wind at Sky Manor and
expected to go around resulting in me making a good early decision to go
around when necessary, while I tried to recover from a poor approach at my
home airport when I should have gone around earlier.

In retrospect, I made some poor decisions, but ultimately had a safe outcome
by making the right decision at the last second.

You need a nastier home airport to keep you from getting complacent.

At mine the 3 wind socks are usually pointed in three different directions.

I can't count the times I was at the point of congratulating myself
on a great landing when I suddenly found myself 10 to 20 feet back
in the air or suddenly heading for a taxiway.

I was bitching about how squirrely the air is to one of the local CFI's
one day. He just laughed and said if I can land it there, everywhere
else short of a rolling aircraft carrier should be a piece of cake.

He's right.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Basically, I recovered from an imminent approach to landing stall
20 feet above the ground. This is not a good situation to get yourself in,
to say the least.
This scared me pretty good. I was complacent at my home airport

You don't say how much experience you've got, but I think you did just
fine. You came close to bending an airplane, and walked away
unscathed -- the best possible outcome. This extra shot of adrenaline
will serve you well down the road, trust me.

In short, you will never, EVER be complacent while landing again. I
know, because I (as, I'm sure, most pilots) have scared the crap outta
myself on landing a few times, and I now approach every landing as a
potential go-round.

Honestly, looking back at my first couple of hundred hours, I'm amazed
I didn't break something. Let's see, just off the top of my head I
remember these two:

- A landing in Rockford, IL, in a REALLY nasty crosswind, where I
froze on the controls with full left rudder applied. This was my
crosswind correction, but -- in a Piper -- the nosewheel and rudder
are linked. When I lowered the nose, guess which way the plane
headed, really fast? Oops....

- A landing at little bitty Sylvania Field (C89), in a Skyhawk, where
I had to do a go 'round and chose to raise the electric flaps
completely while low, slow, and out of ideas. Gosh, those trucks on
the freeway (at the departure end of Rwy 8) sure got big! Ooops...

I just asked Mary about her scary landings, and she replied that "We
try to block those from our memory..." I'm sure there have been
more, but you get the idea -- we all have them.

Another thing you'll find -- you ALWAYS nail the tough landings. If I
know the landing is going to be challenging (due to wind, or whatever)
it's almost always a greaser -- while the ones I expect to be a "piece
of cake" are usually the clunkers.
---
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Mary's most scarry landing (as documented here)... AirVenture 200?
[This Oldtimers stuff is really something. One year seems like two, two
seems like five...)

Jay Honeck wrote:
I just asked Mary about her scary landings, and she replied that "We
try to block those from our memory..." I'm sure there have been
more, but you get the idea -- we all have them.

On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 23:08:25 -0400, "Jim Jones"
wrote in :


This scared me pretty good. I was complacent at my home airport because I
am used to landing there, the runway is long, and the wind was basically
down the runway. I fully expected variable gusty wind at Sky Manor and
expected to go around resulting in me making a good early decision to go
around when necessary, while I tried to recover from a poor approach at my
home airport when I should have gone around earlier.

In retrospect, I made some poor decisions, but ultimately had a safe outcome
by making the right decision at the last second.


Thanks for sharing your honest introspection.

You seem to blame your decisions for your difficulty, but because I
didn't see you mention the word 'slip', I would guess your training
lacked sufficient emphasis on the productive use of that maneuver.
Applied vigorously, a forward slip will shed altitude rapidly, and it
provides the pilot with authoritative control in terminating the
descent almost immediately. In a cross wind approach, it's a natural.
A truth I have discovered about gusty crosswind landings is, that
there is a brief window of vulnerability during the flair and roundout
whose duration needs to be minimized by a reduction in the approach
speed within the limits of practicality. When the aircraft's attitude
is nose-high, after the slip into the cross wind on approach must
necessarily be terminated for fear of dragging a wing on the ground,
the pilot has no good means of controlling lateral drift. If the
wheels can be planted on the runway before sufficient lateral velocity
and its inertia mount to unacceptable magnitude, all is well. But
putting the wheels on the runway requires the aircraft to be stalled
and no longer flying.

When the aircraft's attitude
is nose-high, after the slip into the cross wind on approach must
necessarily be terminated for fear of dragging a wing on the ground,
the pilot has no good means of controlling lateral drift. If the
wheels can be planted on the runway before sufficient lateral velocity
and its inertia mount to unacceptable magnitude, all is well.

Purely sophomoric quip, it strikes me that any crosswind landing
attempt where the crosswind is so strong that the aircraft risks a
wing-strike would already be far beyond the capacity of the rudder to
maintain the slip (and WAY beyond the aircraft's demonstrated X-wind
component).

It is of course always possible that a gusty crosswind might 'send the
plane over the edge' at the worse possible moment... but then I would
question the judgement of the pilot to even think of getting so close
to the ground in a drag-heavy deep slip configuration... The
windshear risk alone would make that a dangerous proposition.

The situation you describe strikes me as being a very clear diversion
scenario. In the absence of that option, my instructor suggested that
(at least in my stout-legged PA-28) in an emergency, during a heavy,
gusty crosswind beyond the aircraft's rudder capacity, your best bet
is simply to go with the "crab-plant' approach, and associated repair
bills.

I in no way vouch for this approach, I'm just relaying what I was told.

Mary's most scarry landing (as documented here)... AirVenture 200?
[This Oldtimers stuff is really something. One year seems like two, two
seems like five...)

True, but that was a situation-induced scary landing, not something
caused by inattention or a sudden gust of wind, as is the spirit of
this thread.

She simply followed the guy ahead of us, and the instructions of the
controller, and ended up with a safe-but-all-too-exciting landing.

BTW: That was 2005.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"