WW II - Diesel birds?

Somebody on another forum was trying to convince people that
because of the gasoline shortages during WW-II that there were
quiet a few aircraft that actually used diesel fuel.

I know that people are playing with that today, but was it
really used in aviation back then?

Thanks,
Coug

On Fri, 27 May 2005 15:04:54 -0700, Cougar
wrote:

Somebody on another forum was trying to convince people that
because of the gasoline shortages during WW-II that there were
quiet a few aircraft that actually used diesel fuel.

I know that people are playing with that today, but was it
really used in aviation back then?

Diesel powered aircraft were tried during the 1930s, but not
particularly successful. Giuseppe Bellanca (at least) tried one or
more versions but none made it past the "experimental" stage.

There were no naval aircraft that I know of that used diesels.

There is one modern company in Austria producing them. Go to
http://www.diamondair.com/contentc/TwinFlies.htm

Bill Kambic

wrote:

On Fri, 27 May 2005 15:04:54 -0700, Cougar
wrote:

Somebody on another forum was trying to convince people that
because of the gasoline shortages during WW-II that there were
quiet a few aircraft that actually used diesel fuel.

I know that people are playing with that today, but was it
really used in aviation back then?

Diesel powered aircraft were tried during the 1930s, but not
particularly successful. Giuseppe Bellanca (at least) tried one or
more versions but none made it past the "experimental" stage.

There were no naval aircraft that I know of that used diesels.

The Germans had some Junkers Diesel powered Maritime Patrols
airplanes.
The Blohm & Voss Bv 138 Flying Boat "Die Fleigende Hoelshue / Flying
Clog" was probably the most numerous, and, IIRC, there was a Deisel
powered flavor of the Bv 222.

The Soviet Pe-8 heavy bomber also was originally Diesel powered.
During the summer of 1941, they launched a dozen or so of them on a
raid on Berlin. I don't think any got back to their original base -
they all force landed due to engine failures.

--
Pete Stickney
Java Man knew nothing about coffee.

Cougar wrote:

Somebody on another forum was trying to convince people that
because of the gasoline shortages during WW-II that there were
quiet a few aircraft that actually used diesel fuel.

I know that people are playing with that today, but was it
really used in aviation back then?

Thanks,
Coug

The way that this is written seems to hint that some gasoline
powered aircraft might have been run on diesel...if that's the
case then I can assure you that it didn't happen...
--


-Gord.

"I'm trying to get as old as I can,
and it must be working 'cause I'm
the oldest now that I've ever been"

On Fri, 27 May 2005 19:28:16 -0700, Peter Stickney
wrote:

There were no naval aircraft that I know of that used diesels.

The Germans had some Junkers Diesel powered Maritime Patrols
airplanes.
The Blohm & Voss Bv 138 Flying Boat "Die Fleigende Hoelshue / Flying
Clog" was probably the most numerous, and, IIRC, there was a Deisel
powered flavor of the Bv 222.

The Soviet Pe-8 heavy bomber also was originally Diesel powered.
During the summer of 1941, they launched a dozen or so of them on a
raid on Berlin. I don't think any got back to their original base -
they all force landed due to engine failures.

Interesting. You learn something new every day! :-)

Still, it doesn't seem that they were too successful as their numbers
were small (and the Russian example would not give too many "warm
fuzzies" to a commander).

It will be interesting to see if the Diamond people can make a "go" of
it with their design.

Bill Kambic

a few JU 86 highflying reconissance Planes used twostroke Junkers Jumo
205C-4 liquid-cooled Diesel engines for patrol over Great Britain.

Cougar schrieb:

Somebody on another forum was trying to convince people that
because of the gasoline shortages during WW-II that there were
quiet a few aircraft that actually used diesel fuel.

I know that people are playing with that today, but was it
really used in aviation back then?

Thanks,
Coug

"Cougar" wrote in message
...
Somebody on another forum was trying to convince people that
because of the gasoline shortages during WW-II that there were
quiet a few aircraft that actually used diesel fuel.

I know that people are playing with that today, but was it
really used in aviation back then?

Thanks,
Coug

The Germans built a number in the 30's , the Jumo J-204 was a
6 cylinder , vertically opposed 12 piston engine with 2 crankshafts
connected by chain developing around 600HP
It was quite heavy but had excellent fuel consumption
and was built under license in Britain as
the Napier Culverin and used in a variety of aircraft
including some Ju-52's

Keith

"Max Richter" wrote in message
...
a few JU 86 highflying reconissance Planes used twostroke Junkers Jumo
205C-4 liquid-cooled Diesel engines for patrol over Great Britain.


The Jumo 205 for this version also was equipped with a pair of centrifugal
superchargers mounted in series. The cabin pressure was provided by
tapping the port engine-driven blower.

Pre-war the Napier company had licensed the Jumo design
as the Culverin and although development of it stopped in
1939 ir was to become the basis for the post war Napier Nomad

This was a real beast essentially consisting of 2 enlarged Culverins
connected in the form of an H block acting as gas generator
for a gas turbine that drove the propellor and just for good
measure it had an afterburner for take off. making it a 24 piston
12 cylinder Diesel engine and gas turbine with reheat !


Keith.

In article ,
Cougar wrote:
Somebody on another forum was trying to convince people that
because of the gasoline shortages during WW-II that there were
quiet a few aircraft that actually used diesel fuel.

I know that people are playing with that today, but was it
really used in aviation back then?

More pre-WW2 than during: the Germans were keen on lightweight
(for some value of lightweight) 2-stroke aerodiesels, using
them in several flying boat designs. These Junkers opposed-
piston designs were licenced pre-war by Napier (as the Culverin)
but they never saw much use in .uk
During the war - well, /particularly/ for the germans considerations
of absolute fuel economy soon became secondary to improving performance
so aerodiesels fell out of use for all but maritime patrol a/c which
might expect to be operating away from fighter opposition - the
Dornier 18 and the Blohm und Voss 138(? the 3-engined flying shoe)
continued to use diesels until the advent of the escort 'carrier
saw an end to their activities.
The allies (and the italians, and the japanese) never really
bothered with aero-diesels for warplanes, for fairly obvious
reasons.
Post-war there was nearly a come-back, with the Napier Nomad
turbo-compound (a hybrid diesel-gas turbine engine, with the
diesel driving the compressor stage) proposed for an evolution
of the Shackleton. I believe it's still the among the most
fuel-efficient engines ever built, but it never went into
production.

--
Andy Breen ~ Interplanetary Scintillation Research Group
http://users.aber.ac.uk/azb/
"Time has stopped, says the Black Lion clock
and eternity has begun" (Dylan Thomas)

Cougar wrote:
Somebody on another forum was trying to convince people that
because of the gasoline shortages during WW-II that there were
quiet a few aircraft that actually used diesel fuel.

I know that people are playing with that today, but was it
really used in aviation back then?

Thanks,
Coug

140 Ju-86D's.

276 Bv-138's. All used the Junkers Jumo 205

These were not used due to gas shortages.

I think the Ju-86's might have been an attempt to use the
diesels to see how they would work out in service (better engines
replaced them) and perhaps the Bv-138 used them due to their intended
use in conjunction with naval vessels.