ICAO Flight Plans - RNAV/RNP??

All,

I am trying to figure out how to complete the ICAO information on
fltplan.com for filing a flightplan for a C182 with a Garmin 530W.
The RNAV/RNP stuff has me confused. What would the proper answers be
for an aircraft with a 530W? How about a standard Garmin 430?

I've searched high and low on the Internet, but I am still confused!
(see below for web form).

I think this is relavent: http://www.jeppesen.com/download/bri...7_A_update.pdf,
but to be perfectly honest, I am not sure how to interpret it....

Here is the "help" page for the data form: http://www.fltplan.com/ICAOHelp.htm#RNAV

Apparently, after 6/29/08 this information will be _required_ to be
assigned RNAV departure and arrival procedures.


--Dan


==================

RNAV Capability
RNAV Capability NOTES
There are no new acronyms, terms or performance requirements
associated with the new domestic ICAO flight plans.
As far as domestic flight plans are concerned, ATC is only looking for
more information concerning your aircraft's SID, STAR and enroute
navigation capabilities.
If you were legal to fly "T" routes, "Q" routes, RNAV 1 & 2 SIDs and
STARs before...you can still fly them...you just need to let ATC know
this on your flight plan.
If you don't have the "answers" to the RNAV questions then leave them
blank. Your flight plan will be filed and ATC will not include any
RNAV routing in your IFR clearance.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RNP - stands for "Required Navigation Performance". Select the best
RNP value for you aircraft.
Note 1 : Just leave this box blank if status is unknown.
Note 2 : Domestically, this information is not used. (ATC uses the
RNAV Departure/Enroute/Arrival info )



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RNAV Departure Level - select 1 of the 3 options from the dropdown
box.
BLANK - the aircraft does not meet the requirements for any RNAV
departure
RNAV 1 - the aircraft can meet the navigational requirements of a SID
(DP) requiring RNAV 1 capability
RNAV 2 - the aircraft can meet the navigational requirements of a SID
(DP) requiring RNAV 2 capability


Note 1 : If you don't think you have RNAV Departure capabilities (or
don't know) then you probably don't. Leave the box empty.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RNAV Enroute Level - Select 1 of the 4 possible choices from the
dropdown box
BLANK - the aircraft has no area navigational capabilities
RNV 1.0 - the aircraft can navigate enroute with a 1 nm or less
crosstrack error for 95% of the time
RNV 2.0 - the aircraft can navigate enroute with a 2 nm or less
crosstrack error for 95% of the time
RNV 99 - Select this option if you can legally navigate from point to
point but don't meet the requirements of RNV 1.0 or RNV 2.0 enroute
capabilities.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RNAV Arrival Level - Select 1 of the 3 options from the dropdown box.
BLANK - the aircraft does not meet the requirements for any RNAV
departure
RNAV 1 - the aircraft can meet the navigational requirements of a STAR
requiring RNAV 1 capability
RNAV 2 - the aircraft can meet the navigational requirements of a STAR
requiring RNAV 2 capability

In a previous article, Dan said:

I am trying to figure out how to complete the ICAO information on
fltplan.com for filing a flightplan for a C182 with a Garmin 530W.
The RNAV/RNP stuff has me confused. What would the proper answers be
for an aircraft with a 530W? How about a standard Garmin 430?

SDG/C

At least according to CoPilot.


--
Paul Tomblin http://blog.xcski.com/
We're the technical experts. We were hired so that management could
ignore our recommendations and tell us how to do our jobs.
-- Mike Andrews

On 2008-05-30, Paul Tomblin wrote:
In a previous article, Dan said:
I am trying to figure out how to complete the ICAO information on
fltplan.com for filing a flightplan for a C182 with a Garmin 530W.
The RNAV/RNP stuff has me confused. What would the proper answers be
for an aircraft with a 530W? How about a standard Garmin 430?
SDG/C
At least according to CoPilot.

....well, if he's got a DME as well, that is.

I wonder how many folks will do a double-take when, at some point in the
future, I wind up using VOLG/S on a flight plan. (No ADF, so I can't use
SG/S.) Yes, N55ZC has mode S.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 10 June)

On May 28, 10:20*pm, Dan wrote:
All,

I am trying to figure out how to complete the ICAO information on
fltplan.com for filing a flightplan for a C182 with a Garmin 530W.
The RNAV/RNP stuff has me confused. *What would the proper answers be
for an aircraft with a 530W? How about a standard Garmin 430?

Not quite sure what you are asking. In the US RNP reqiures SAAAR .
Who do you fly for ?

Frank

On Fri, 30 May 2008 21:07:27 -0700 (PDT), rank amature
wrote:

On May 28, 10:20*pm, Dan wrote:
All,

I am trying to figure out how to complete the ICAO information on
fltplan.com for filing a flightplan for a C182 with a Garmin 530W.
The RNAV/RNP stuff has me confused. *What would the proper answers be
for an aircraft with a 530W? How about a standard Garmin 430?

Not quite sure what you are asking. In the US RNP reqiures SAAAR .
Who do you fly for ?

Other than those approaches labled "Special Aircrew and Aircraft
Authorization Required" what else precludes people with appropriately
TSO'd equipment (which I believe the GNS series are, wasn't there a
stink about this last year when the King stuff turned out to be
substandard?) obtaining RNAV departures and arrivals, a-la TRALR2 at
KLAS? If I'm reading the FAA page right, filing the old domestic plan
won't get you anything other than airways, you have to file the ICAO
plan to get RNAV routes from the computers. Obviously "cleared direct
x" still works in flight, but to get auto-routed with it needs the
new form at filing.

On May 30, 9:07*pm, rank amature wrote:
On May 28, 10:20*pm, Dan wrote:

All,

I am trying to figure out how to complete the ICAO information on
fltplan.com for filing a flightplan for a C182 with a Garmin 530W.
The RNAV/RNP stuff has me confused. *What would the proper answers be
for an aircraft with a 530W? How about a standard Garmin 430?

Not quite sure what you are asking. In the US RNP reqiures SAAAR .
Who do you fly for ?

Frank



- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Just a personal C182.... Nothing fancy, no special training or
certification. I just want to ensure I can use the GPS for arrivals,
departures, approaches, and enroute ops (as I already do now).

On 2 juin, 19:47, Dan wrote:
On May 30, 9:07*pm, rank amature wrote:



On May 28, 10:20*pm, Dan wrote:

All,

I am trying to figure out how to complete the ICAO information on
fltplan.com for filing a flightplan for a C182 with a Garmin 530W.
The RNAV/RNP stuff has me confused. *What would the proper answers be
for an aircraft with a 530W? How about a standard Garmin 430?

Not quite sure what you are asking. In the US RNP reqiures SAAAR .
Who do you fly for ?

Frank

- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Just a personal C182.... Nothing fancy, no special training or
certification. *I just want to ensure I can use the GPS for arrivals,
departures, approaches, and enroute ops (as I already do now).

SG/S is OK. It says you have B-RNAV capabilities, which is OK to fly
SID/STAR based on RNAV (unless the chart says P-RNAV required).

On May 31, 7:33*am, Just go look it up! wrote:
On Fri, 30 May 2008 21:07:27 -0700 (PDT), rank amature

wrote:
On May 28, 10:20*pm, Dan wrote:
All,

I am trying to figure out how to complete the ICAO information on
fltplan.com for filing a flightplan for a C182 with a Garmin 530W.
[...]
*If I'm reading the FAA page right, filing the old domestic plan
won't get you anything other than airways, you have to file the ICAO
plan to get RNAV routes from the computers. *Obviously "cleared direct
x" still works in flight, but to get auto-routed with it needs the
new form at filing.

Here's a link that may be of some use:

"https://www.faasafety.gov/files/notices/2008/Jun/
Letter_to_Airmen.pdf"

Regards,
Jon

"Dan" wrote in message
...
Just a personal C182.... Nothing fancy, no special training or
certification. I just want to ensure I can use the GPS for arrivals,
departures, approaches, and enroute ops (as I already do now).

My limited understanding of RNAV/RNP is it's just being implemented at the
largest air carrier airports at this time.

I know in the DFW metroplex, DFW airport is the only airport in the area
using RNAV (departures only). They may start using them at DAL sometime in
the future. Air carriers are the only ones I've seen using the procedures.

I can imagine there are a few hoops you have to dive through to meet SAAAR
and even if you could do all that, the only RNAV procedures I've seen are
for jets (perhaps there are others, but I'm only familiar with the ones in
my area).

Even given all that, RNAV procedures seem to have a pretty high level of
pilot deviations. My guess for this is there's a lot of people out there
not programming the box correctly.

My guess is eventually RNAV will be implemented much more widely as it
reduces controller and pilot workload, but it may be quite a while before
you see very many single engine prop guys doing it.

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 22:47:48 GMT, "Mike" wrote:

"Dan" wrote in message
...
Just a personal C182.... Nothing fancy, no special training or
certification. I just want to ensure I can use the GPS for arrivals,
departures, approaches, and enroute ops (as I already do now).

My limited understanding of RNAV/RNP is it's just being implemented at the
largest air carrier airports at this time.

I know in the DFW metroplex, DFW airport is the only airport in the area
using RNAV (departures only). They may start using them at DAL sometime in
the future. Air carriers are the only ones I've seen using the procedures.

I can imagine there are a few hoops you have to dive through to meet SAAAR
and even if you could do all that, the only RNAV procedures I've seen are
for jets (perhaps there are others, but I'm only familiar with the ones in
my area).

Even given all that, RNAV procedures seem to have a pretty high level of
pilot deviations. My guess for this is there's a lot of people out there
not programming the box correctly.

My guess is eventually RNAV will be implemented much more widely as it
reduces controller and pilot workload, but it may be quite a while before
you see very many single engine prop guys doing it.

SAAAR != this kind of RNAV. See say COSTR.COSTR1 or BAIRN.BAIRN1 at
MCO for a standard RNAV1 STAR that doesn't say "applies to turbojet
aircraft only" and applies to the various Orlando airports (first area
that comes to mind since I was just down there, but I'm sure there are
other RNAV arrivals that apply to reliever airports and aren't
turbojet only).