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#11
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How can we "fix" LEX to prevent wrong runway selection everywhere?
"Jim Carter" wrote in message news:001d01c6e833$26b414f0$4001a8c0@omnibook6100.. . Another good point - The alarm would have to be in both tower cab and the cockpit and have to be audible to be effective. Any "fix" that has to be in the tower cab won't work everywhere. |
#12
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How can we "fix" LEX to prevent wrong runway selection everywhere?
Jim Carter wrote:
50 years ago the LEX accident would have been declared pilot error and the media would not have sensationalized the issue like they do today. I'm worried this sensationalism will end up forcing a new set of regulations on us that do very little to address the problem. The TWA/United mid-air over the Grand Canyon was 50 years ago this past June. I recently saw some of the original newspaper reports. They didn't seem much different than what the print media reports these days. |
#13
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How can we "fix" LEX to prevent wrong runway selection everywhere?
Jim Carter wrote:
government or any of its agencies). The fixes are already in place for what happened at LEX. Other than the lighting, numbering, signage, and instruments in the cockpit I'm not sure what "fixes" you might be thinking about. Sam, if you meant those items I mentioned here, then we have to agree that they still require passive human interpretation and are still being overlooked or ignored. My solution isn't 100% complete, but I think it might be closer than we already are. I am not certain about the specifics of the FMS installed in the accident aircraft. Lots of the modern systems show only the selected runway. Thus, had the crew selected 22 they would have been leaving the pavement, so to speak, as they begin their roll on 26. Also, had they set runway heading on their heading "bug" it would have been pointing some 49 degrees to the left. It has been common practice in air carrier operations for many years to set the heading bug to runway heading. The FAA issued a safety alert on September 1st reminding pilots of this basic aspect of air carrier departure safety check (not to mention the flight has to fly runway heading for some period of time after takeoff, being IFR. But, the fact they elected to roll on a runway without operating runway edge lights rises to the level where no procedure could protect against that. The concerns of the industry are (correctly) about runway intrusions, such as happen at places like LAX far too often. I wonder if this solution could also be used to address runway incursions by predicting movement of aircraft on the ground. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to solve 2 problems with 1 relatively inexpensive solution? That factor alone probably dooms the suggestion to oblivion. Moving map airport diagrams go a long ways to preventing runway incursions at airports like LAX. I suppose the flight plan/ATC clearance system could be enhanced to highlight the authorized runway and to show in red the prohibitd runways. For example handing on 25L at LAX the runway could be green and 25R could be red. After landing Runway 25R would turn green only after clearance to cross had been obstained, But this would require repitious manual controller intervention, and would almosr certainly fail like the runway traffic lights tried at various times at various locations. If the hold-short and crossing instructions were issued by datalink, then perhaps it woould work reliably. Datalink should have replaced routine voice communications many years ago. It was promised by the FAA to be operational in the 1970s. |
#14
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How can we "fix" LEX to prevent wrong runway selection everywhere?
TheNPC wrote:
SNIP The FAA issued a safety alert on September 1st reminding pilots of this basic aspect of air carrier departure safety check (not to mention the flight has to fly runway heading for some period of time after takeoff, being IFR. Oh boy! The Lesbian Bull Dike controlled FAA reacts "AFTER" a terrible crash as if they have a handle on anything in America relating to Air Safety. What a joke "The Tombstone" Agency really gives me a warm fuzzy Knee-Jerk after the fact ass covering Government Bull**** Fodder The FAA is famous for that Stupid people love it It was a reminder, numb nuts. |
#15
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How can we "fix" LEX to prevent wrong runway selection everywhere?
TheNPC wrote:
It was a reminder, numb nuts. Did some one "remind" the FAA to not violate their AT staffing orders and leave an ATCT understaffed with just one over worked tired controller alone on duty in violation of their own ATCT staffing orders? No one has provided compelling facts to indicate that this was anything other than a collosal pilot(s) blunder. Look at the airport diagram. REGARDLESS of taxiway changes or lights or moon phase, the pilots should have known that they had to completely cross Runway 26 to get to Runway 22. That is not rocket science. Snip rant Or does the American Public need to "Remind" the FAA by firing all of them and starting over that Air Safety is their primary business rather than politically correct social gatherings on the American tax dime while ATCT's are understaffed? I would rather that the NTSB be given regulatory (?) relative to flight safety. Ron Lee |
#16
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How can we "fix" LEX to prevent wrong runway selection everywhere?
"TheNPC" wrote in message .. . Did some one "remind" the FAA to not violate their AT staffing orders and leave an ATCT understaffed with just one over worked tired controller alone on duty in violation of their own ATCT staffing orders? The ATCT was not understaffed. |
#17
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How can we "fix" LEX to prevent wrong runway selection everywhere?
Ron Lee wrote:
I would rather that the NTSB be given regulatory (?) relative to flight safety. Why do you think they would regulate any differently than the FAA? |
#18
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How can we "fix" LEX to prevent wrong runway selection everywhere?
I find myself wondering what the cost of a low-power ground radar
I don't see anything being necessary. Accidents will happen in the future and they will always happen if humans are involved. There is nothing that assures perfect safety. Maybe a moving map display might prevent an accident like this. However, there will be another accident that is caused (also) by a malfunctioning moving map because it was not aligned correctly or an old version or a bad scan... Living is always life endangering. As long as far more people die because of cars and guns we better should take care of that! |
#19
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How can we "fix" LEX to prevent wrong runway selection everywhere?
"TheNPC" wrote in message news Cars and Guns kill more people because stupid and/or drunk and/or unqualified or poorly trained people get a hold of them every day Air Travel should be perfectly safe because it supposedly involves professionally trained people who follow strict guidelines. But when "Negligence" comes into play, there are mechanisms to insure accountability and compensation and problem resolution so it will not happen again. In the case of KLEX, the FAA was "Negligent" with their Air Traffic controller workforce staffing that Sunday morning at Bluegrass Airport. You can spin all day like a washing machine and throw out hypothesis after hypothesis but the bottom line at LEX the FAA was "Negligent" because they violated their Air Traffic staffing orders. If found the crew was 100 percent at fault it still does not negate the fact the FAA was negligent. The LEX tower was not understaffed. The fact that FAA directives required two people to perform a one-person job had nothing to do with the accident at LEX. |
#20
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How can we "fix" LEX to prevent wrong runway selection everywhere?
I guess that's why this country is a lawyers paradise. Nobody has any
personal accountability anymore, just sue whoever has the largest coffers. TheNPC wrote: Stefan Lörchner wrote: I find myself wondering what the cost of a low-power ground radar I don't see anything being necessary. Accidents will happen in the future and they will always happen if humans are involved. There is nothing that assures perfect safety. Maybe a moving map display might prevent an accident like this. However, there will be another accident that is caused (also) by a malfunctioning moving map because it was not aligned correctly or an old version or a bad scan... Living is always life endangering. As long as far more people die because of cars and guns we better should take care of that! Cars and Guns kill more people because stupid and/or drunk and/or unqualified or poorly trained people get a hold of them every day Air Travel should be perfectly safe because it supposedly involves professionally trained people who follow strict guidelines. But when "Negligence" comes into play, there are mechanisms to insure accountability and compensation and problem resolution so it will not happen again. In the case of KLEX, the FAA was "Negligent" with their Air Traffic controller workforce staffing that Sunday morning at Bluegrass Airport. You can spin all day like a washing machine and throw out hypothesis after hypothesis but the bottom line at LEX the FAA was "Negligent" because they violated their Air Traffic staffing orders. If found the crew was 100 percent at fault it still does not negate the fact the FAA was negligent. |
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