Late BFR

"Dan Luke" wrote:
"Andrew Sarangan" wrote:

The logbook is your personal document. It becomes a legal document
only when you submit it for inspection by the FAA for a checkride or
ramp check.

You do not have to show your logbook to the FAA at a ramp check.

Some of the legal advice I've found says that if you have it with you then
you have to show it if asked. Here's a couple links that say that:

http://www.aerolegalservices.com/Art...ampCheck.shtml
http://www.avweb.com/news/avlaw/181897-1.html

Dan Luke wrote:
"Andrew Sarangan" wrote:


The logbook is your personal document. It becomes a legal document
only when you submit it for inspection by the FAA for a checkride or
ramp check.


You do not have to show your logbook to the FAA at a ramp check.

Don't you have to show it if you're a soloed
student without a regular license?

"Jim Logajan" wrote :
"Andrew Sarangan" wrote:

The logbook is your personal document. It becomes a legal document
only when you submit it for inspection by the FAA for a checkride or
ramp check.

You do not have to show your logbook to the FAA at a ramp check.

Some of the legal advice I've found says that if you have it with you then
you have to show it if asked. Here's a couple links that say that:

http://www.aerolegalservices.com/Art...ampCheck.shtml

The article says that the FAA may ask to see it, not that you have to show it.
It also advises, wisely, that you not carry your logbook in the airplane.

http://www.avweb.com/news/avlaw/181897-1.html

Can't read this one; I lost my AvWeb pw a long time ago.

Anyway, the logbook is not one of the items a private pilot is required to
submit to a ramp check.

--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

"Dan Luke" wrote:

"Jim Logajan" wrote :
"Andrew Sarangan" wrote:

The logbook is your personal document. It becomes a legal document
only when you submit it for inspection by the FAA for a checkride
or ramp check.

You do not have to show your logbook to the FAA at a ramp check.

Some of the legal advice I've found says that if you have it with you
then you have to show it if asked. Here's a couple links that say
that:

http://www.aerolegalservices.com/Art...ampCheck.shtml

The article says that the FAA may ask to see it, not that you have to
show it. It also advises, wisely, that you not carry your logbook in
the airplane.

http://www.avweb.com/news/avlaw/181897-1.html

Can't read this one; I lost my AvWeb pw a long time ago.

Here's the relevant quote from that article:

"What Can an FAA Inspector Demand to See?

Upon request, a properly credentialed FAA official may demand to see a
pilot's license and medical certificate and a copy of the pilot's logbook
(if he has it with him). An inspector cannot normally gain entry to
search an aircraft operated under FAR Part 91 without authorization from
the owner or operator, but he may examine the aircraft from the outside
and look through unshaded windows. Exceptions may exist where there is
probable cause that a crime has been committed or in "border crossing"
situations."

Anyway, the logbook is not one of the items a private pilot is
required to submit to a ramp check.

As a practical matter, even if the pilot does have the log book with him
but claims he doesn't have it with him, there doesn't seem to be anything
an FAA official can do to prove that the logbook was with the pilot but
he was not shown it. Sure, something that looks like a log book may be
visible but it may not be that pilot's log book or even the current
logbook of the pilot.

On 2007-03-25 05:54:49 -0700, "Dan Luke" said:


"Andrew Sarangan" wrote:

The logbook is your personal document. It becomes a legal document
only when you submit it for inspection by the FAA for a checkride or
ramp check.

You do not have to show your logbook to the FAA at a ramp check.

Even so, I cannot imagine an FAA inspector going through your logbook
to see if every flight you ever made was legal or not. At most, he will
look to see when your last BFR was. If it is overdue, the most likely
action is that he will tell you that you need a BFR and encourage you
to get one.

Most FAA inspectors in my experience are not jerks, but people
genuinely interested in aviation safety. Yes, there are a few jerks out
there, but those guys will find an excuse to hang you no matter what
you do. And I am not saying that just because the FAA does a lot of
training flights out of our flight school. :-)
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

C J Campbell wrote:
On 2007-03-25 05:54:49 -0700, "Dan Luke" said:


"Andrew Sarangan" wrote:

The logbook is your personal document. It becomes a legal document
only when you submit it for inspection by the FAA for a checkride or
ramp check.


You do not have to show your logbook to the FAA at a ramp check.


Even so, I cannot imagine an FAA inspector going through your logbook to
see if every flight you ever made was legal or not. At most, he will
look to see when your last BFR was. If it is overdue, the most likely
action is that he will tell you that you need a BFR and encourage you to
get one.

Most FAA inspectors in my experience are not jerks, but people genuinely
interested in aviation safety. Yes, there are a few jerks out there, but
those guys will find an excuse to hang you no matter what you do. And I
am not saying that just because the FAA does a lot of training flights
out of our flight school. :-)

I'm glad you said that. I can't help but wonder
why most everyone else has such a contentious
attitude towards the FAA.

How many people have been mistreated by the FAA
to lead them to have such an attitude?

Jim Stewart wrote:
C J Campbell wrote:
On 2007-03-25 05:54:49 -0700, "Dan Luke" said:


"Andrew Sarangan" wrote:

The logbook is your personal document. It becomes a legal document
only when you submit it for inspection by the FAA for a checkride or
ramp check.


You do not have to show your logbook to the FAA at a ramp check.


Even so, I cannot imagine an FAA inspector going through your logbook to
see if every flight you ever made was legal or not. At most, he will
look to see when your last BFR was. If it is overdue, the most likely
action is that he will tell you that you need a BFR and encourage you to
get one.

Most FAA inspectors in my experience are not jerks, but people genuinely
interested in aviation safety. Yes, there are a few jerks out there, but
those guys will find an excuse to hang you no matter what you do. And I
am not saying that just because the FAA does a lot of training flights
out of our flight school. :-)

I'm glad you said that. I can't help but wonder
why most everyone else has such a contentious
attitude towards the FAA.

How many people have been mistreated by the FAA
to lead them to have such an attitude?

It only takes a few incidents such as the Bob Hover debacle to get
everyone goosey.

Plus it is bad news that is interesting.

People don't sit around swapping stories about what a non-event their
encounter with the FAA was, they talk about the one time they, or
someone they know, got drug over the coals.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

C J Campbell wrote:
Most FAA inspectors in my experience are not jerks, but people genuinely
interested in aviation safety. Yes, there are a few jerks out there, but
those guys will find an excuse to hang you no matter what you do. And I
am not saying that just because the FAA does a lot of training flights
out of our flight school. :-)

Jim Stewart wrote:
I'm glad you said that. I can't help but wonder
why most everyone else has such a contentious
attitude towards the FAA.

How many people have been mistreated by the FAA
to lead them to have such an attitude?

I wonder the same thing.
I had a mechanical failure and emergency off-field landing that totaled
my airplane last year, and the FAA was VERY professional, helpful and
supportive. I was prepared for the worst, because of all the comments
about how "the FAA out to get you" ... and was very pleasantly surprised
they were nothing like that.

People don't sit around swapping stories about what a non-event their
encounter with the FAA was, they talk about the one time they, or
someone they know, got drug over the coals.

....and of course it was never their own fault!
;-)

Jim Stewart wrote:
C J Campbell wrote:
On 2007-03-25 05:54:49 -0700, "Dan Luke" said:


"Andrew Sarangan" wrote:

The logbook is your personal document. It becomes a legal document
only when you submit it for inspection by the FAA for a checkride or
ramp check.


You do not have to show your logbook to the FAA at a ramp check.


Even so, I cannot imagine an FAA inspector going through your logbook
to see if every flight you ever made was legal or not. At most, he
will look to see when your last BFR was. If it is overdue, the most
likely action is that he will tell you that you need a BFR and
encourage you to get one.

Most FAA inspectors in my experience are not jerks, but people
genuinely interested in aviation safety. Yes, there are a few jerks
out there, but those guys will find an excuse to hang you no matter
what you do. And I am not saying that just because the FAA does a lot
of training flights out of our flight school. :-)

I'm glad you said that. I can't help but wonder
why most everyone else has such a contentious
attitude towards the FAA.

How many people have been mistreated by the FAA
to lead them to have such an attitude?


I haven't and I don't know anyone who has, but the few that have
happened have been pretty high profile such as the Hoover case. This
certainly cements in people's minds that all of the FAA are idiots like
the two cretins that busted Bob.

Matt