If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Advice request -- buying an airplane
Hello all,
I have an opportunity to buy a 1978 C-172 that appears to be in better than good condition for a better than good (for me) price. The logs are current and an annual was completed in February -- I've talked to that mechanic and he said the ship is in good shape. I thinking about offering a $500 good faith deposit, refundable only if I find something wrong in a pre-buy inspection and have cause to back out. Does that sound fair? Should it be more or less? I have a recommendation for a good mechanic who has never seen the airplane but know nothing about avionics shops. The aircraft is nearby Wm. J. Fox field in Lancaster. Any comments on the local folks there? And to make things lively, I welcome any other suggestions about buying my first airplane. Well, except from the PT Barnumphytes Regards, Casey Wilson Replace dot with . to send email |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Okay .. been thru this a few times ..advice follows:
If you're going to put money down be sure you have a contract that spells out all the details. Such as .. under exactly what conditions do you get your money back. What level of discrpencies on the prebuy will trigger a refund? What if you fail to complete the sale? What if major airworthiness issues are found and you can't come to an agreement on an adjusted price? As far as the amount .. I've always been asked for at least $1000. But this is between you and the seller. Of the planes I've sold I've never asked for a downpayment or a contract. I've simply held it for each buyer while they did their prebuy and told them if they changed their mind .. just walk away .. no big deal. The last couple planes I sold went very quickly .. less than a week. Have AOPA run a title search. It's worth the $95. They'll search for accident and incident records, liens, all 337s on file with FAA, registration history on file with FAA. Make sure there are no breaks in the title chain and all transfers were correctly filled out. Make sure the logs jive with the 337s and accident history. I've found accidents on file with FAA and no 337s or log entries as to how it was repaired. Damage history isn't neccessarily a deal killer if it was repaired and documented properly. Use an escrow agent. Buy title insurance. If you find something good, don't dawdle. In my search for my current plane every time I though I found a good prospect and called .. it was sold. The good ones go fast. In the logs look for a consistent history of fixing things regularly as needed. Be suspicious of paint and interior right before a sale. Could be covering something up. Expect some things to come up after your purchase. There just always seems to be some things that you want to do .. or that need attention .. no matter how good the prebuy was. I try to have about 5% of the purchase price set aside for this. Do a good estimate on the costs of ownership. Now double it. Enjoy your plane. It's nice having a plane sitting there waiting for you that no one touches but you. OW "Casey Wilson" wrote in message ... Hello all, I have an opportunity to buy a 1978 C-172 that appears to be in better than good condition for a better than good (for me) price. The logs are current and an annual was completed in February -- I've talked to that mechanic and he said the ship is in good shape. I thinking about offering a $500 good faith deposit, refundable only if I find something wrong in a pre-buy inspection and have cause to back out. Does that sound fair? Should it be more or less? I have a recommendation for a good mechanic who has never seen the airplane but know nothing about avionics shops. The aircraft is nearby Wm. J. Fox field in Lancaster. Any comments on the local folks there? And to make things lively, I welcome any other suggestions about buying my first airplane. Well, except from the PT Barnumphytes Regards, Casey Wilson Replace dot with . to send email |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
"Otis Winslow"
If you find something good, don't dawdle. In my search for my current plane every time I though I found a good prospect and called .. it was sold. The good ones go fast. Absolutely. Conversely, don't fall in love with the first thing you see. If you've been searching awhile, viewed a few, etc. OK. If this is the first candidate you've seen, be careful. It's unlikely you can spot a 'must have' deal unless you've viewed a few. After a few false starts and several months of searching, it became obvious to me that one way to find the good deal was express mail of Trade-a-Plane (7 years ago). When I spotted it, I knew enough to jump on an airliner and show up in person the next day. There's a lot of stuff out there that seems decent but the truly good deals go quickly. Enjoy your plane. It's nice having a plane sitting there waiting for you that no one touches but you. amen. |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
On 15-Apr-2004, "Casey Wilson" wrote: I have a recommendation for a good mechanic who has never seen the airplane but know nothing about avionics shops. Others are offering good advice about shopping and prebuys, but you also asked about avionics shops. Apparently, you are thinking about having the avionics "checked out." While it would certainly be possible to have each "black box" bench checked to verify conformance to specification, this would be quite costly. Fact is, aside from knobs, switches, and such, solid-state avionics don't "wear out" in the sense that engines do. A bench checkout today in no way reduces the probability of failure tomorrow. Were it me, I would check out operation of all of the avionics myself during flight testing. Make sure everything works, the radios sound good (both receive and transmit -- ask ATC for a radio check), the altitude encoder works properly (ask ATC for verification of altitude readout). You get the idea. It might be a good idea to make up a list of tests to perform to make sure that you check all of the onboard avionics. Pay particular attention to autopilot operation if there is one, and don't forget to check out the glideslope receiver and indicator. One other thing I would do is poke my head up behind the radio stack to see the condition of wiring harnesses. What you should find is neat and secure wiring, not a rat's nest of wires going every which way. Then, the only reason to involve an avionics shop would be to give estimates for repairing any faulty equipment, or to perform a transponder check if one is due or near due. -- -Elliott Drucker |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Casey,
I purchased an airplane back in December. Very interesting experience. The process took me about 4 months. I found a book called "Purchasing and Evaluating Airplanes", by Brian Jacobson, to be very helpful (published by Odyssey Aviation Publications). The best thing you can do is to spend a bit of time educating yourself (as you are doing on this forum) about what you need to do. In addition to doing a pre-buy inspection, I got a pre-buy professional evaluation. You can find your nearest evaluator by contacting the National Aircraft Appraisers Association. I think these cost around $200 or so. I found them to worthwhile. They read the logs thoroughly, rate the paint, panel, interior, etc. I would strongly suggest that you have the pre-buy inspector (A&P) create a full report that includes all the things he inspected. There seems to be no standard on what to include and not include in such an inspection, especially with respect to the engine. Pay a little more if you have to. You are making a big investment, it is worth checking it out thoroughly. Read the logs cover to cover. Then read them again. Look for any major repairs that suggest an accident of some sort. The logs do not say "repaired damage from pilot ramming into the side of a building really hard with right wing"; they just list a whole bunch of repairs. You have to conclude what the cause was and become comfortable that the repairs were done adequately. Also watch for long periods of time where the plane was not operated. Having an engine sit around can be very damaging. Doing all of these does not guarantee you will not have problems. I purchased my aircraft in January of this year. I had an engine failure (in-fligth) 2 weeks ago which will require a $22K major overhaul. Was there something more that I wish I did while buying it that could have found the fault. I am not sure. I think, in retrospect, I would have asked for a more thorough pre-buy on the engine itself (of course, that is easy to say with hindsight). I think I might have also asked for a few more recommendations on good A&P mechanics that know how to really do a good pre-buy. Best of luck to you! -Sami N2057M, Piper Turbo Arrow III (temporarily out of commission) Casey Wilson wrote: Hello all, I have an opportunity to buy a 1978 C-172 that appears to be in better than good condition for a better than good (for me) price. The logs are current and an annual was completed in February -- I've talked to that mechanic and he said the ship is in good shape. I thinking about offering a $500 good faith deposit, refundable only if I find something wrong in a pre-buy inspection and have cause to back out. Does that sound fair? Should it be more or less? I have a recommendation for a good mechanic who has never seen the airplane but know nothing about avionics shops. The aircraft is nearby Wm. J. Fox field in Lancaster. Any comments on the local folks there? And to make things lively, I welcome any other suggestions about buying my first airplane. Well, except from the PT Barnumphytes Regards, Casey Wilson Replace dot with . to send email |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Homebuilt Aircraft Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) | Ron Wanttaja | Home Built | 0 | October 1st 04 02:31 PM |
Homebuilt Aircraft Frequently Asked Questions List (FAQ) | Ron Wanttaja | Home Built | 0 | September 2nd 04 05:15 AM |
Homebuilt Aircraft Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) | Ron Wanttaja | Home Built | 0 | June 2nd 04 07:17 AM |
"I Want To FLY!"-(Youth) My store to raise funds for flying lessons | Curtl33 | General Aviation | 7 | January 9th 04 11:35 PM |
Homebuilt Aircraft Frequently-Asked Questions (FAQ) | Ron Wanttaja | Home Built | 0 | July 4th 03 04:50 PM |