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#61
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I rest my case.
Bruce Hoult wrote: snip Why on earth would you land downwind from such a position? Angle off to the pattern side of the runway a little, fly downwind until you get to 200 ft (more than 2 km unless there is sink) or the end of the runway, do a 180 and land with the other traffic. |
#62
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Isn't it the others nearby that you *didn't* see that the radio call is for? No, Bruce. In a contest normal radio calls are suspended and only conflicts are called out. ie, JJ's on down-wind, I'm #3, got the guy turning final, etc. We should all be aware of those present in the area because we made the 4 mile call and the JJ's in the gate, call. JJ |
#63
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At 01:00 07 May 2005, 5z wrote:
John Sinclair wrote: Oh yeah? I was driving hard for the finish line at Ephrata, 1/2 mile out, 500 feet and 145 knots when I almost nailed a PW-5 at 500 feet doing an estimated 60 knots. All happened so fast I had no time to react. Luckily I went just over him. Another gooood reason to employ the finish cylinder, especially with sports class machines in the contest. This exact same situation will happen with the cylinder... You have a conservative glide for 500' + margin at the edge of the cylinder while flying your Lingus III. For the last 20 miles you've been flying in lift streets, so at 3-4 miles out from the edge, you have Mc set to 9.9 and still high. The Guy in the Bowlus is putting along at max L/D and aiming for 500' + some margin as well. Somewhere out there, you'll be passing him like he's going backwards. Granted, the collision will be a bit higher, so maybe there will be time to bail out safely. -Tom Tom, I was responding to OC's statement that this situation will never happen in the finish line, so I gave an example of it happening. Sure it can happen in both gates. JJ |
#64
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This way the JJs and newbies could finish at their desired 500' (or more), and proceed liesurely to the pattern, while us crazed maniacs could risk life and limb to shine our a**es for the crowd of adoring groupies via spectacular beat-ups. Heck, JJ, we'll probably kill ourselves off pretty quickly (along with assorted burning worms) so your problem will be solved! Do I hear a knucke-draggin' Neanderthal outside the cave? Wanten' to know if old JJ can come out and play? You're a figher jock, Kirt, tell me something; Would you rather drive over the target and drop an irom bomb on it or toss a GPS guided hummer at it? I for one, have had enough of that "drivin'-over-the-target" business and I'm happy we can now accomplish the same mission by simply dialing in the GPS coordinates and fling that clever little thing at the target from a mile away. ;) JJ |
#65
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JJ you've definitely lost your Mojo . Old age and wrinkles
have clearly diluted your testosterone to a mere wisp of their former glory.. As I see it, gate finishes (done properly) are terrific fun. Cylinder finishes are a relatively tedious 'non-event' by comparison. How could anything so BORING be dangerous? But, for every 'uneventful fun' gate finish I've also had a 'glad we finished at 500' today' experience in/near the pattern, especially on large airfields with only 1 runway option with a large fleet. Which brings me to my point; a safe finish is done in the context of the site and the weather and the traffic situation. Some sites and events are MUCH safer with a cylinder finish. I dont think many sites are inherently very safe for gate finishes, except those like Avenal which tend to run downwind finishes with a pullup & 180 to final. (which I confess i really enjoy). Here, safety is aided by thoughtful task planning. Antics like 'hooking the gate' are absurd; POST type tasks definitely call out for a cylinder finish unless a steering turnpoint is used. I think its undeniable that cylinder finishes are (in general) safer than low gate finishes. Its possible to kill yourself in almost any situation but using that as an argument against change doesnt really cut it. I like both finish types. But the older I get, the more precious my hide becomes. Just my 2 cents; trying to stay out of a life or death struggle to determine who is right. Kind Regards Peter Deane (2T) At 13:30 07 May 2005, wrote: This way the JJs and newbies could finish at their desired 500' (or more), and proceed liesurely to the pattern, while us crazed maniacs could risk life and limb to shine our a**es for the crowd of adoring groupies via spectacular beat-ups. Heck, JJ, we'll probably kill ourselves off pretty quickly (along with assorted burning worms) so your problem will be solved! Do I hear a knucke-draggin' Neanderthal outside the cave? Wanten' to know if old JJ can come out and play? You're a figher jock, Kirt, tell me something; Would you rather drive over the target and drop an irom bomb on it or toss a GPS guided hummer at it? I for one, have had enough of that 'drivin'-over-the-target' business and I'm happy we can now accomplish the same mission by simply dialing in the GPS coordinates and fling that clever little thing at the target from a mile away. ;) JJ |
#66
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Peter Deane wrote: JJ you've definitely lost your Mojo . Old age and wrinkles have clearly diluted your testosterone to a mere wisp of their former glory.. Hi Peter, Just had a physical, Doc played with the family jewels, got the finger wave, everything checked out OK. During our little chat, with me sitting naked on the exam taple, Doc said, You haven't been in for 5 years, so why now? I need another prescription for Viagra. He handed me 2 free samples and said, see you in 5 years. ;) JJ |
#67
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Hi JJ;
Well look on the bright side; at least you wont roll out of bed so often :-) I need another prescription for Viagra. He handed me 2 free samples and said, see you in 5 years. ;) JJ |
#68
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JJ, you've got the wrong comparison!
Would you rather bring your four-ship down initial and pitch out into a nice tight pattern, rolling out of your final turn just as you touch down, where everybody can see it and appreciate the beauty of it, or skulk back via an ASLAR, dragging your wingmen and creeping in the last ten miles with the gear down at 170 knots. Yeah, that's manly! Racing is about fun, dropping HE is a job - and I'm all for giving every swinging richard a load of GBU-38s and a long list of very special coordinates and turning them loose. Just remember to keep the targeting pod on the impact point so you can get some good CNN video... Kirk (that's with 2 K's) |
#69
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Morning Kirk (with 2 K's) When I was a staff puke at Langley (DOE) we worked a proposal to stop doing the overhead, pitch-out pattern because of safety considerations. The conclusion was it should be retained because it was the fastest way to get 4 ships back on the ground. It's also very enjoyable to watch. The finish gate is very enjoyable to watch, but whers the need? Why, we don't even have a guy down there with a stop watch any more. It's all for show. We've beat this thing to death, lets go fly, JJ (with 2 J's) wrote: JJ, you've got the wrong comparison! Would you rather bring your four-ship down initial and pitch out into a nice tight pattern, rolling out of your final turn just as you touch down, where everybody can see it and appreciate the beauty of it, or skulk back via an ASLAR, dragging your wingmen and creeping in the last ten miles with the gear down at 170 knots. Yeah, that's manly! Racing is about fun, dropping HE is a job - and I'm all for giving every swinging richard a load of GBU-38s and a long list of very special coordinates and turning them loose. Just remember to keep the targeting pod on the impact point so you can get some good CNN video... Kirk (that's with 2 K's) |
#70
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