Gasohol

On Jun 5, 3:13 pm, "Tri-Pacer" wrote:
The reagent is a light purple color and when it is introduced into a sample
of fuel with alcohol it turns the sample purple. A chart is included to
determine the percentage of alcohol. The kits were put together by
a "B.B.TravisCo." PO Box 287 Lodi CA 95241 and are supposedly Patent Pending.

I haven't found any sign of a BBTravis Company but my searching skills
aren't the best.

I sure would like to know what the reagent is that was used.

The reagent appears to be methylrosaniline chloride.

See U.S. Pat. 5,229,295 issued to Basil B. Travis of Lodi, CA.

A colorimetric test for alcohols (any alcohol) comprises
0.1% gentian violet dye in mineral oil suspension which
when shaken with fuel causes the fuel to become purple
when there is at least 1% alcohol present. The purple color
is proportional to the alcohol concentration in the range 1%
to 5% where the percentage of alcohol may be estimated
by the intensity of the purple color.
snip
As it is perhaps well known, gentian violet dye is chemically
methylrosaniline chloride and has been used as both a
bacteriological and histological stain ...

I've heard that too, but it doesn't really matter since either invalidate
the STC and nobody is pursuing a STC to distinguish between them.

'Tis a true bummer.

mike

"Dan Youngquist" wrote in message
hell.org...
On Sun, 3 Jun 2007, Morgans wrote:

I have seen pictures of fuel line swollen to the size of sausages, and
who knows what the other rubber parts (O-rings, fuel bladders, if you
have them) would look like, and how much alcohol it would take to get it
to swell.

I'm no expert on the matter, but it's my understanding that that sort of
damage is done by methanol, as used in the early gasohol, but not by the
ethanol that's used in more recent times. Is that incorrect?

-Dan

"Dan Youngquist" wrote in message

I'm no expert on the matter, but it's my understanding that that sort of
damage is done by methanol, as used in the early gasohol, but not by the
ethanol that's used in more recent times. Is that incorrect?

I don't know about that.

I did think I understood that the problem with gasohol for airplanes was
incompatibility with some rubber parts of the fuel system.
--
Jim in NC

The reagent appears to be methylrosaniline chloride.

See U.S. Pat. 5,229,295 issued to Basil B. Travis of Lodi, CA.

A colorimetric test for alcohols (any alcohol) comprises
0.1% gentian violet dye in mineral oil suspension which
when shaken with fuel causes the fuel to become purple
when there is at least 1% alcohol present. The purple color
is proportional to the alcohol concentration in the range 1%
to 5% where the percentage of alcohol may be estimated
by the intensity of the purple color.
snip
As it is perhaps well known, gentian violet dye is chemically
methylrosaniline chloride and has been used as both a
bacteriological and histological stain ...


Wow we're getting somewhere.

I wonder why he quit packaging it and selling the stuff.

Paul
N1431A
KPLU

Probably because the water test with a graduated tube was a lot easier,
cheaper and probably more accurate.

When we first got the ethanol here, I was filling my plane from cans that I
had for awhile before I noticed the ethanol sticker. (I always looked, too)
I dumped 5 gallons into a partial tank before I checked just to make sure.
It came up exactly 10%, which is what the pump label says (no more than
10%). I shook up the plane to mix the gas and took a sample. That came up as
3%. I siphoned it all into my car. Fortunately, I hadn't started the plane
with it.

mike

"Tri-Pacer" wrote in message
. ..

The reagent appears to be methylrosaniline chloride.

See U.S. Pat. 5,229,295 issued to Basil B. Travis of Lodi, CA.

A colorimetric test for alcohols (any alcohol) comprises
0.1% gentian violet dye in mineral oil suspension which
when shaken with fuel causes the fuel to become purple
when there is at least 1% alcohol present. The purple color
is proportional to the alcohol concentration in the range 1%
to 5% where the percentage of alcohol may be estimated
by the intensity of the purple color.
snip
As it is perhaps well known, gentian violet dye is chemically
methylrosaniline chloride and has been used as both a
bacteriological and histological stain ...


Wow we're getting somewhere.

I wonder why he quit packaging it and selling the stuff.

Paul
N1431A
KPLU

Probably because the water test with a graduated tube was a lot easier,
cheaper and probably more accurate.


I wonder why he quit packaging it and selling the stuff.



Actually the test kit was very fast and easy. I was able to test a sample
before I filled my 5 gallon cans. when I tested the kit against known
gasohol it did indeed show positive with the color matching what a 10%
mixture would show.

Paul N1431A
KPLU

On May 30, 7:13 pm, "Blueskies" wrote:
Is it true that there is no longer any requirement to label gasoline contaminated with alcohol?

Good article hehttp://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Gasoline.html

I just did the add water to gas test on a couple of local gas sources and all contain alcohol, and none of the pumps
said anything about it. The feds just dropped the requirement to label the pumps and we all missed it?

Jay, where do you fill the grape from and how do you know there is no evil alcohol in it?

When MTBE was outlawed, the only financially feasable alternative was
alcohol. It is mantdated to be used in about 20 states, mostly on the
two coasts, but several other states have 5-10% alcohol mandates -
Missouri is the latest - their mandate begins Jan 08. Becides entire
states most of the nations major cities have mandates that require
alcohol to be added to increase the oxygen content of the gasoline to
reduce emmissions. Retail pump labeling is not a federal requirement,
it varies state by state. Some states require that retail pumps be
labled if the gasoline contains alcohol, other states do not have such
a requirement.

Even if you do not live in a state that requires the addition of
alcohol to auto gas, that is no guarantee that your gasoline does not
contain alcohol. Currently retailers can make an extra 5-7 cents per
gallon by adding 10% aclohol to their auto gas.

I recently did a presentation on alcohol in auto gas for an aviation
group. I took several samples of 87 octane auto gas and added 10 %
alcohol to some samples and to some of these mixture samples I added
20% water. You could not see the water in the sample. Alcohol
absorbs water - this is the danger of using it in aircrft. I then
lowered the temperature on the samples and the water froze and settled
out. This would have been a sure way to plug and line or injector.

"Pure" auto gas will generally be available at FBO's - then can order
it delivered without alcohol, but I would not use any auto fuel that I
bought at a retail outlet (Convenience Store) and hauled to the
airport with out doing an alcohol test.

On Jun 5, 12:22 pm, Cubdriver usenet AT danford DOT net wrote:
On Sun, 3 Jun 2007 12:37:37 -0400, "Morgans"

wrote:
But, it is _very_ difficult (it takes some expensive chemistry tricks) to
get all of the water distilled out of alcohol, in other words, stronger than
around 98% alcohol.

I think that's correct. When I was a student in England years ago, we
used to buy a liquor known as Polish White Spirits, which was 180
proof or 90 percent. The local wisdom (university students) held that
anything stronger would promptly dilute itself back to 180 proof from
water in the air (this was England, remember, very humid).

Google tells me that one can buy 190 proof (95 percent) "Everclear"
grain alcochol in British stores today.

Blue skies! -- Dan Ford

(Proof = the concentration of alcohol at which gunpowder soaked with
it will still explode, or rather flash up. It was therefore called
"proof", which later became 100 proof. It just happened to be 50
percent alcohol, so 200 proof is 100 percent.

(More student wisdom.)

(Wiki tells me that 100 proof is actually 49.28 percent alcohol BY
WEIGHT. By volume, it's less, so the student wisdom is a bit shaky.)

Blue skies! -- Dan Ford

Claire Chennault and His American Volunteers, 1941-1942
forthcoming from HarperCollinswww.flyingtigersbook.com


The only real difference between the 190 proof Everclear you refer to
and the alcohol that is added to auto gas is that the alcohol to be
added to auto fuel is "denatured". All this means is that it has been
poisioned so that it is unfit for human consumption. This is usually
done with natural gasoline and the regulations allow them to vary the
amount they add to 3-5%.

As it is perhaps well known, gentian violet dye is chemically
methylrosaniline chloride and has been used as both a
bacteriological and histological stain ...

http://dermatology.about.com/library...gentviolet.htm

Definition: Gentian Violet is a purple dye that is used to treat
vaginal yeast infections and thrush. The dye is "painted" on the
infection and kills the fungus. It can stain clothing.

Want to emphesize that ALL gasoline has some water in it. It leaves
the refinery with some non-zero amount. It's stored in floating roof
tanks [1] that will let some in. It's in a truck in the rain... it's
there.

The question is getting rid of same.

We all know how -- let it sit quietly and it shall settle out. Then
open the bottom drain and watch. That might be under your wing, or
on a tank or inbetween...



[1] Gas does not go kabboom; gas vapor does. So it's stored not in
tanks as much as 4 million gallon cylinders with closed bottoms.

On top of the gas there's a big heavy floating roof that has a gasket
all the way around the edge. It floats directly atop the gas; ergo
no vapor space.

Then there's a sliding ladder deal so the pipeline operator can
climb up over the cylinder lip and back down onto the roof.

BUT, with the tank half full; there's a 2 million gallon trap atop
the roof to collect rainwater and snow; some of which leaks past
that gasket. Most is SUPPOSED to go through an articulated downspout
gadget INSIDE the tank and out the side at the bottom; but that's
only when the temperature is well above freezing...and they leak
a little too...

This was obvious to many pilots & few ground-dwellers, but now many
of the tanks also have a cap on top to keep some of the rain and
snow out. I was looking for a GoogleMap photo and all the ones I
worked on are now capped.



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