who moved SAV, forgot to tell Jepp?

As I was preparing for an angel flight to Savannah last week, I compared my out
of date approach charts with the online versions and noticed that all the
approaches using the SAV VOR had changed, and what's more, the VOR itself had
moved about 5 miles west. No problem, just print new charts from myairplane.com
(thanks, myairplane.com!) and off we go.

It looks like the VOR was moved from a position about 5 miles NE of the airport
to a new location just off the departure end of runway 36.

I thought this would be a good excuse to download a new database for my Garmin
196, so went to the Garmin site and downloaded cycle 0311, available now, and
scheduled to be effective October 30, two days from now. Surprise! The VOR is
still shown in its old location in the new database.

There is nothing about the error in the JeppAlerts section on the Garmin web site.

I've notified Garmin of the error, will notify Jepp and AOPA shortly.

I'm curious whether people with IFR navigators using Jepp data see the error.

The old location was apparently: 32-09.635N / 081-06.755W the new location is
apparently 32-08-46.560N / 081-11-56.780W.

Remove SHIRT to reply directly.

Dave

You might want to check the date of your new database. My 04 Sep 2003 Jeppesen
database in my Garmin 295 shows the new location of the VOR directly off the end of
Runway 36, at N 32 08 46.8 W081 11 56.7

That VOR was moved several months ago and the frequency was changed at the same time.

Dave Butler wrote:

As I was preparing for an angel flight to Savannah last week, I compared my out
of date approach charts with the online versions and noticed that all the
approaches using the SAV VOR had changed, and what's more, the VOR itself had
moved about 5 miles west. No problem, just print new charts from myairplane.com
(thanks, myairplane.com!) and off we go.

It looks like the VOR was moved from a position about 5 miles NE of the airport
to a new location just off the departure end of runway 36.

I thought this would be a good excuse to download a new database for my Garmin
196, so went to the Garmin site and downloaded cycle 0311, available now, and
scheduled to be effective October 30, two days from now. Surprise! The VOR is
still shown in its old location in the new database.

There is nothing about the error in the JeppAlerts section on the Garmin web site.

I've notified Garmin of the error, will notify Jepp and AOPA shortly.

I'm curious whether people with IFR navigators using Jepp data see the error.

The old location was apparently: 32-09.635N / 081-06.755W the new location is
apparently 32-08-46.560N / 081-11-56.780W.

Remove SHIRT to reply directly.

Dave

Interesting, thanks. It's cycle 0311 for the Garmin 196, freshly downloaded last
night, effective date 10/30/2003. Dave

wrote:
You might want to check the date of your new database. My 04 Sep 2003 Jeppesen
database in my Garmin 295 shows the new location of the VOR directly off the end of
Runway 36, at N 32 08 46.8 W081 11 56.7

That VOR was moved several months ago and the frequency was changed at the same time.

Dave Butler wrote:


As I was preparing for an angel flight to Savannah last week, I compared my out
of date approach charts with the online versions and noticed that all the
approaches using the SAV VOR had changed, and what's more, the VOR itself had
moved about 5 miles west. No problem, just print new charts from myairplane.com
(thanks, myairplane.com!) and off we go.

It looks like the VOR was moved from a position about 5 miles NE of the airport
to a new location just off the departure end of runway 36.

I thought this would be a good excuse to download a new database for my Garmin
196, so went to the Garmin site and downloaded cycle 0311, available now, and
scheduled to be effective October 30, two days from now. Surprise! The VOR is
still shown in its old location in the new database.

There is nothing about the error in the JeppAlerts section on the Garmin web site.

I've notified Garmin of the error, will notify Jepp and AOPA shortly.

I'm curious whether people with IFR navigators using Jepp data see the error.

The old location was apparently: 32-09.635N / 081-06.755W the new location is
apparently 32-08-46.560N / 081-11-56.780W.

Remove SHIRT to reply directly.

It wouldn't be the first time Jeppesen got it right, then later regressed. ;-)

Dave Butler wrote:

Interesting, thanks. It's cycle 0311 for the Garmin 196, freshly downloaded last
night, effective date 10/30/2003. Dave

wrote:
You might want to check the date of your new database. My 04 Sep 2003 Jeppesen
database in my Garmin 295 shows the new location of the VOR directly off the end of
Runway 36, at N 32 08 46.8 W081 11 56.7

That VOR was moved several months ago and the frequency was changed at the same time.

Dave Butler wrote:


As I was preparing for an angel flight to Savannah last week, I compared my out
of date approach charts with the online versions and noticed that all the
approaches using the SAV VOR had changed, and what's more, the VOR itself had
moved about 5 miles west. No problem, just print new charts from myairplane.com
(thanks, myairplane.com!) and off we go.

It looks like the VOR was moved from a position about 5 miles NE of the airport
to a new location just off the departure end of runway 36.

I thought this would be a good excuse to download a new database for my Garmin
196, so went to the Garmin site and downloaded cycle 0311, available now, and
scheduled to be effective October 30, two days from now. Surprise! The VOR is
still shown in its old location in the new database.

There is nothing about the error in the JeppAlerts section on the Garmin web site.

I've notified Garmin of the error, will notify Jepp and AOPA shortly.

I'm curious whether people with IFR navigators using Jepp data see the error.

The old location was apparently: 32-09.635N / 081-06.755W the new location is
apparently 32-08-46.560N / 081-11-56.780W.

Remove SHIRT to reply directly.

wrote:
It wouldn't be the first time Jeppesen got it right, then later regressed. ;-)

I just spent some quality time with my 196 and I can refine my observation a
little. It seems that *both* positions of the VOR are in the database, and which
instance you see depends on how you get to it:

- if you find the VOR by a combination of panning and zooming on the moving
map, you see the VOR in its new, correct position.

- if you find the VOR by adding it as a waypoint in a flight plan using the
text interface for adding waypoints, you see the VOR in its old, incorrect position.

I'll pass along this new information to Garmin/Jepp.

Dave

Dave Butler wrote:


Interesting, thanks. It's cycle 0311 for the Garmin 196, freshly downloaded last
night, effective date 10/30/2003. Dave

wrote:

You might want to check the date of your new database. My 04 Sep 2003 Jeppesen
database in my Garmin 295 shows the new location of the VOR directly off the end of
Runway 36, at N 32 08 46.8 W081 11 56.7

That VOR was moved several months ago and the frequency was changed at the same time.

Dave Butler wrote:



As I was preparing for an angel flight to Savannah last week, I compared my out
of date approach charts with the online versions and noticed that all the
approaches using the SAV VOR had changed, and what's more, the VOR itself had
moved about 5 miles west. No problem, just print new charts from myairplane.com
(thanks, myairplane.com!) and off we go.

It looks like the VOR was moved from a position about 5 miles NE of the airport
to a new location just off the departure end of runway 36.

I thought this would be a good excuse to download a new database for my Garmin
196, so went to the Garmin site and downloaded cycle 0311, available now, and
scheduled to be effective October 30, two days from now. Surprise! The VOR is
still shown in its old location in the new database.

There is nothing about the error in the JeppAlerts section on the Garmin web site.

I've notified Garmin of the error, will notify Jepp and AOPA shortly.

I'm curious whether people with IFR navigators using Jepp data see the error.

The old location was apparently: 32-09.635N / 081-06.755W the new location is
apparently 32-08-46.560N / 081-11-56.780W.

Remove SHIRT to reply directly.

The Garmin site currently has this "important note" posted....

Important note: Garmin is currently performing a revision to the current
database cycle for the GPSMAP 195, 196, and 295. No aviation database
updates are available for these three products at this time. We hope to
have a new update posted in the next 24 - 48 hours. Please check back on
10/29. We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused.

Steve P

On 10/28/2003 11:28 AM after considerable forethought, Dave Butler wrote:

wrote:

It wouldn't be the first time Jeppesen got it right, then later
regressed. ;-)


I just spent some quality time with my 196 and I can refine my
observation a little. It seems that *both* positions of the VOR are in
the database, and which instance you see depends on how you get to it:

- if you find the VOR by a combination of panning and zooming on the
moving map, you see the VOR in its new, correct position.

- if you find the VOR by adding it as a waypoint in a flight plan using
the text interface for adding waypoints, you see the VOR in its old,
incorrect position.

I'll pass along this new information to Garmin/Jepp.

Dave

Dave Butler wrote:


Interesting, thanks. It's cycle 0311 for the Garmin 196, freshly
downloaded last
night, effective date 10/30/2003. Dave

wrote:

You might want to check the date of your new database. My 04 Sep
2003 Jeppesen
database in my Garmin 295 shows the new location of the VOR directly
off the end of
Runway 36, at N 32 08 46.8 W081 11 56.7

That VOR was moved several months ago and the frequency was changed
at the same time.

Dave Butler wrote:



As I was preparing for an angel flight to Savannah last week, I
compared my out
of date approach charts with the online versions and noticed that
all the
approaches using the SAV VOR had changed, and what's more, the VOR
itself had
moved about 5 miles west. No problem, just print new charts from
myairplane.com
(thanks, myairplane.com!) and off we go.

It looks like the VOR was moved from a position about 5 miles NE of
the airport
to a new location just off the departure end of runway 36.

I thought this would be a good excuse to download a new database
for my Garmin
196, so went to the Garmin site and downloaded cycle 0311,
available now, and
scheduled to be effective October 30, two days from now. Surprise!
The VOR is
still shown in its old location in the new database.

There is nothing about the error in the JeppAlerts section on the
Garmin web site.

I've notified Garmin of the error, will notify Jepp and AOPA shortly.

I'm curious whether people with IFR navigators using Jepp data see
the error.

The old location was apparently: 32-09.635N / 081-06.755W the new
location is
apparently 32-08-46.560N / 081-11-56.780W.

Remove SHIRT to reply directly.

I use a Garmin GNC300XL, religiously updated via Jeppesen every 28 days
to keep it IFR leagal. A few cycles back one of our local airports
popped up 50 MILES from its actual location. I notified both Jepp and
Garmin, and got quite a bit of run around.

Be careful out there.

Dave Butler wrote:
As I was preparing for an angel flight to Savannah last week, I compared
my out of date approach charts with the online versions and noticed that
all the approaches using the SAV VOR had changed, and what's more, the
VOR itself had moved about 5 miles west. No problem, just print new
charts from myairplane.com (thanks, myairplane.com!) and off we go.

It looks like the VOR was moved from a position about 5 miles NE of the
airport to a new location just off the departure end of runway 36.

I thought this would be a good excuse to download a new database for my
Garmin 196, so went to the Garmin site and downloaded cycle 0311,
available now, and scheduled to be effective October 30, two days from
now. Surprise! The VOR is still shown in its old location in the new
database.

There is nothing about the error in the JeppAlerts section on the Garmin
web site.

I've notified Garmin of the error, will notify Jepp and AOPA shortly.

I'm curious whether people with IFR navigators using Jepp data see the
error.

The old location was apparently: 32-09.635N / 081-06.755W the new
location is apparently 32-08-46.560N / 081-11-56.780W.

Remove SHIRT to reply directly.

Dave

In a previous article, Dave Butler said:
I'm curious whether people with IFR navigators using Jepp data see the error.

The old location was apparently: 32-09.635N / 081-06.755W the new location is
apparently 32-08-46.560N / 081-11-56.780W.

I looked at both the last FAA and DAFIF data (the ones that expire
tomorrow) and the next revision, and they both have it at 32.146267N,
81.1991W (that would be 32-8-47N, 81-12-0W).


--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
....the default behaviour should be *not* to **** up.
-- adb

Hmmmm.
That IS interesting.
I saw it in its new location when I was in KSAV in August.

Rich

Dave Butler wrote:
As I was preparing for an angel flight to Savannah last week, I compared
my out of date approach charts with the online versions and noticed that
all the approaches using the SAV VOR had changed, and what's more, the
VOR itself had moved about 5 miles west. No problem, just print new
charts from myairplane.com (thanks, myairplane.com!) and off we go.


Dave

I have yet to receive a specific response to my complaint from either Garmin or
Jepp, but I did get this from Garmin:

Dear Garmin Customer,
Garmin recently discovered omissions within Jeppesen database cycle
0311. This databases affected are only for the Garmin GPSMAP 195, GPSMAP
196 and GPSMAP 295 products. We have corrected and updated the 0311
database and have posted the updated version as of October 28, 2003 2:45pm
CST. The missing data does not pose a hazard to navigation, however we feel
that our loyal Garmin customers are entitled to the full database that they
have purchased. You can obtain the updated version of cycle 0311 on our
website at http://shop.garmin.com/aviation/databases/. Use your existing
unlock code from your previous 0311 update to unlock the modified database.
If you have any questions or issues while updating your unit , please
contact our Technical Support department at 800-800-1020 or via email
.

Best Regards,


Steve P wrote:
The Garmin site currently has this "important note" posted....

Important note: Garmin is currently performing a revision to the current
database cycle for the GPSMAP 195, 196, and 295. No aviation database
updates are available for these three products at this time. We hope to
have a new update posted in the next 24 - 48 hours. Please check back on
10/29. We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused.

Steve P

On 10/28/2003 11:28 AM after considerable forethought, Dave Butler wrote:

wrote:

It wouldn't be the first time Jeppesen got it right, then later
regressed. ;-)



I just spent some quality time with my 196 and I can refine my
observation a little. It seems that *both* positions of the VOR are in
the database, and which instance you see depends on how you get to it:

- if you find the VOR by a combination of panning and zooming on the
moving map, you see the VOR in its new, correct position.

- if you find the VOR by adding it as a waypoint in a flight plan
using the text interface for adding waypoints, you see the VOR in its
old, incorrect position.

I'll pass along this new information to Garmin/Jepp.

Dave

Dave Butler wrote:


Interesting, thanks. It's cycle 0311 for the Garmin 196, freshly
downloaded last
night, effective date 10/30/2003. Dave

wrote:

You might want to check the date of your new database. My 04 Sep
2003 Jeppesen
database in my Garmin 295 shows the new location of the VOR
directly off the end of
Runway 36, at N 32 08 46.8 W081 11 56.7

That VOR was moved several months ago and the frequency was changed
at the same time.

Dave Butler wrote:



As I was preparing for an angel flight to Savannah last week, I
compared my out
of date approach charts with the online versions and noticed that
all the
approaches using the SAV VOR had changed, and what's more, the VOR
itself had
moved about 5 miles west. No problem, just print new charts from
myairplane.com
(thanks, myairplane.com!) and off we go.

It looks like the VOR was moved from a position about 5 miles NE
of the airport
to a new location just off the departure end of runway 36.

I thought this would be a good excuse to download a new database
for my Garmin
196, so went to the Garmin site and downloaded cycle 0311,
available now, and
scheduled to be effective October 30, two days from now. Surprise!
The VOR is
still shown in its old location in the new database.

There is nothing about the error in the JeppAlerts section on the
Garmin web site.

I've notified Garmin of the error, will notify Jepp and AOPA shortly.

I'm curious whether people with IFR navigators using Jepp data see
the error.

The old location was apparently: 32-09.635N / 081-06.755W the new
location is
apparently 32-08-46.560N / 081-11-56.780W.

Remove SHIRT to reply directly.







--
--
Dave Butler, software engineer 919-392-4367
I want to know how all our oil got under their sand. --Dana Carvey