Pitts Groundloop

"Anytime you blow something at the apex, cut
the power, let the nose come through, recover and do it again."

Funnily enough, that's the one part I'm getting really good at! I learned
early on that the Pitts is actually pretty docile and if I find myself with
no energy and just basically tumbling or falling out of a maneuver, cut the
power, ease any pressures on any surfaces, the nose eventually comes down,
and she more or less sorts herself out. Two things required for that to
work: altitude to do it, patience to wait for it. It's kind of a weird
feeling knowing that, for a few seconds, you're merely cargo while the laws
of nature reassert their pre-eminence.

What I've had happening in my HHs is exactly as you describe. Formerly I'd
get to the apex, usually with full right aileron in, kick left rudder and
she'd roll over on her back, coming out of the maneuver vertical but about
60 degrees left of axis. Nothing I was doing with aileron or timing seemed
to work. So I started doing it just as above, but smoothly reducing power
as the nose slices, and that seems to have resolved the problem. They're
still not bang on, but I'm coming out only a few degrees off axis, which I
think is solvable, and certainly wouldn't give me a zero in a comp. I just
can't stand being beaten by a figure that's considered a pretty basic one!

Display sequence is coming on. Hope to practice some more this weekend if
the weather cooperates. I'm not ready to go for the DA yet, but a couple
more sessions and some more coaching and I think I'll be there.

Shawn
What kind of flying to you get up to these days, Dudley?

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
ink.net...

"ShawnD2112" wrote in message
...
It'll take me a couple of times to digest what you've written here,
Dudley,
but I think I understand. So far, I'm not using any forward stick on
hammerheads and the amount of aileron I need seems to vary with each
flight
(could it be weight dependant?).
Thanks again for the tips!
Shawn

On the weight; in my opinion, no. You are probably doing it right and
not carrying power into the apex far enough to require a counter for the
precess. You would know this right away, as the nose would want to come
directly back into you throwing you off line.

Off the top of my head on HH's. Just remember I haven't been doing them
for a while now!!! :-))))

At the apex on a HH, you have several forces in play at once, depending
on the power in play when you reach the rotation point.
You're carrying a ton of power up the vertical line to extend and as
airspeed decreases, this power really begins to effect the airplane.
Basically, torque wants to pull you left; and in the slice down,
asymmetric lift wants to roll you left and precession (if you still have
the power in) is in play from the prop disk. The forward stick counters
the precession. Note that if you have cut the power, you have basically
settled the precess problem!! Usually, if your timing is just right, you
have just a bit of forward stick required at the apex just before you
throttle back. It's a touchy inter-relationship between the forces and
the required control pressures. The main thing in the Pitts is how close
to inverted flat spin pro controls you are with power on the airplane at
the apex coupled with whatever forward stick you need to counter the
precess from the prop. Visualize the nose wanting to come straight back
into you from the precess and you'll see right away why you need the
forward stick.
The main thing to remember is that with a HH, inputs are basically
sequential rather than all at once. The big issue is neutralizing on the
downside. Whatever you do in a Pitts, don't carry forward stick and full
rudder with power too far into the slice at the apex.
The good side of all this is that if you're doing it right, you're
cutting the power before you reach the critical point with forward stick
and the problem is solved. Anytime you blow something at the apex, cut
the power, let the nose come through, recover and do it again.

Dudley

"ShawnD2112" wrote in message
...
"Anytime you blow something at the apex, cut
the power, let the nose come through, recover and do it again."

Funnily enough, that's the one part I'm getting really good at! I
learned
early on that the Pitts is actually pretty docile and if I find myself
with
no energy and just basically tumbling or falling out of a maneuver,
cut the
power, ease any pressures on any surfaces, the nose eventually comes
down,
and she more or less sorts herself out. Two things required for that
to
work: altitude to do it, patience to wait for it. It's kind of a
weird
feeling knowing that, for a few seconds, you're merely cargo while the
laws
of nature reassert their pre-eminence.

Sort of like a coupled spin entry. Really gives you that "IN CONTROL"
feeling doesn't it? :-)))


What I've had happening in my HHs is exactly as you describe.
Formerly I'd
get to the apex, usually with full right aileron in, kick left rudder
and
she'd roll over on her back, coming out of the maneuver vertical but
about
60 degrees left of axis. Nothing I was doing with aileron or timing
seemed
to work. So I started doing it just as above, but smoothly reducing
power
as the nose slices, and that seems to have resolved the problem.
They're
still not bang on, but I'm coming out only a few degrees off axis,
which I
think is solvable, and certainly wouldn't give me a zero in a comp. I
just
can't stand being beaten by a figure that's considered a pretty basic
one!
Actually, a good HH is not all that easy to do. The control pressure
sequence varies from airplane to airplane and the timing is as exact as
any maneuver you'll ever fly.
Sounds like you're getting a handle on everything :-)

Display sequence is coming on. Hope to practice some more this
weekend if
the weather cooperates. I'm not ready to go for the DA yet, but a
couple
more sessions and some more coaching and I think I'll be there.

Sounds great. best of luck, and let me know how things are going.

Shawn

What kind of flying to you get up to these days, Dudley?

Well, I'm still quite active as a consultant to various interests in the
fighter community in the United States and I also consult on flight
safety issues from time to time within the flight demonstration
community, but I'm afraid my active flying days are about over. I lost
the vestibular system in my right ear and have a severe balance problem
above 1g. Basically what that means is that I have to allow you "younger
types" out there to have all the the fun while I just watch and critique
what you're doing! :-)
Dudley



"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
ink.net...

"ShawnD2112" wrote in message
...
It'll take me a couple of times to digest what you've written
here,
Dudley,
but I think I understand. So far, I'm not using any forward stick
on
hammerheads and the amount of aileron I need seems to vary with
each
flight
(could it be weight dependant?).
Thanks again for the tips!
Shawn

On the weight; in my opinion, no. You are probably doing it right
and
not carrying power into the apex far enough to require a counter for
the
precess. You would know this right away, as the nose would want to
come
directly back into you throwing you off line.

Off the top of my head on HH's. Just remember I haven't been doing
them
for a while now!!! :-))))

At the apex on a HH, you have several forces in play at once,
depending
on the power in play when you reach the rotation point.
You're carrying a ton of power up the vertical line to extend and as
airspeed decreases, this power really begins to effect the airplane.
Basically, torque wants to pull you left; and in the slice down,
asymmetric lift wants to roll you left and precession (if you still
have
the power in) is in play from the prop disk. The forward stick
counters
the precession. Note that if you have cut the power, you have
basically
settled the precess problem!! Usually, if your timing is just right,
you
have just a bit of forward stick required at the apex just before
you
throttle back. It's a touchy inter-relationship between the forces
and
the required control pressures. The main thing in the Pitts is how
close
to inverted flat spin pro controls you are with power on the
airplane at
the apex coupled with whatever forward stick you need to counter the
precess from the prop. Visualize the nose wanting to come straight
back
into you from the precess and you'll see right away why you need the
forward stick.
The main thing to remember is that with a HH, inputs are basically
sequential rather than all at once. The big issue is neutralizing on
the
downside. Whatever you do in a Pitts, don't carry forward stick and
full
rudder with power too far into the slice at the apex.
The good side of all this is that if you're doing it right, you're
cutting the power before you reach the critical point with forward
stick
and the problem is solved. Anytime you blow something at the apex,
cut
the power, let the nose come through, recover and do it again.

Dudley