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"China blamed in '01 air collision"
China blamed in '01 air collision
A Navy report says a Chinese F-8 jet pilot was to blame for the midair collision over the South China Sea that nearly killed the crew of a U.S. reconnaissance aircraft two years ago. at http://www.washtimes.com/national/20...0434-9850r.htm |
#2
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"Mike Yared" wrote:
China blamed in '01 air collision A Navy report says a Chinese F-8 jet pilot was to blame for the midair collision over the South China Sea that nearly killed the crew of a U.S. reconnaissance aircraft two years ago. at http://www.washtimes.com/national/20...0434-9850r.htm Juliet Foxtrot Charlie, Mike!. You think *that* was news? The crew, Navy, and US Government has *always* maintained that the F-8 pilot crashed into the EP-3. The key part of that report, whether missed by you or the Washington Times deponent won't even try to guess, was that the crew didn't manage to destroy all of the classified material and/or equipment aboard the plane, so some compromise of classified material and/or equipment to the PRC certainly occurred. OJ III [Of course the report didn't identify anything that might have been compromised; and, as reported in the press, did not blame the crew for their failure to destroy everything classified, apparently recognizing that they might have been a tad overtasked by the situation they found themselves in.] |
#3
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Ogden Johnson III wrote:
"Mike Yared" wrote: The key part of that report, whether missed by you or the Washington Times deponent won't even try to guess, was that the crew didn't manage to destroy all of the classified material and/or equipment aboard the plane, so some compromise of classified material and/or equipment to the PRC certainly occurred. OJ III [Of course the report didn't identify anything that might have been compromised; and, as reported in the press, did not blame the crew for their failure to destroy everything classified, apparently recognizing that they might have been a tad overtasked by the situation they found themselves in.] I know this controversy is old, and, to some extent, irrelevant, but... was the pilot bound by regulations to ditch the aircraft ? I mean, when he realized all the sensitive material couldn't be destroyed, shouldn't he set the autopilot on and bail out himself (after allowing for the rest of the crew to bail out safely, of course) ? Please, don't get me wrong, I'm not accusing the crew of cowardice... just asking whether they were bound to follow this course of action or not. Regards, ------------------------------------------ Luca Morandini GIS Consultant http://space.virgilio.it/kumora/index.html ------------------------------------------ |
#5
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Luca Morandini wrote:
Ogden Johnson III wrote: "Mike Yared" wrote: The key part of that report, whether missed by you or the Washington Times deponent won't even try to guess, was that the crew didn't manage to destroy all of the classified material and/or equipment aboard the plane, so some compromise of classified material and/or equipment to the PRC certainly occurred. OJ III [Of course the report didn't identify anything that might have been compromised; and, as reported in the press, did not blame the crew for their failure to destroy everything classified, apparently recognizing that they might have been a tad overtasked by the situation they found themselves in.] I know this controversy is old, and, to some extent, irrelevant, but... was the pilot bound by regulations to ditch the aircraft ? No. Ditching aircraft, particularly airliner-sized ones, is an in-extremis, "We're all gonna die anyway", action. However well it plays in the movies. In this particular situation, no guarantee that the aircraft - or more correctly, its contents - would be unrecoverable. I mean, when he realized all the sensitive material couldn't be destroyed, The report, AFAIK, did not go into detail on how much undestroyed material was involved, or when it became apparent to the aircrew that some material would not be destroyed. shouldn't he set the autopilot on and bail out himself (after allowing for the rest of the crew to bail out safely, of course) ? Same reason as with the ditching; whatever the aircrew did, there was no guarantee that the aircraft, wherever it crashed, would be unrecoverable. OJ III |
#6
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Yofuri wrote:
No, probable suicide for the pilot and crew is not a requirement. P-3 ditchings have a very poor survival record. The EP-3, known as "Skypig" for the projections on it's belly resembling the mammary glands of a sow pig, is an especially poor candidate. Here's some background on P-3 ditchings. Note the link to the totally successful VP-47 ditching at the bottom of the page. actually, in my post I supposed that the crew could bailout before ditching the plane. I understand this is a dangerous practice, but not suicidical as a ditching. Best regards, ------------------------------------------ Luca Morandini GIS Consultant http://space.virgilio.it/kumora/index.html ------------------------------------------ |
#7
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My father was in VQ-2 in the 60's (this plane was part of -1). He tells a
story of some of his squad mates being court-martialed for gutting some of their equipment out of the A-3's aboard the U.S.S. Forrestol while it was burning. Apparently, they thought that the ship was going down and had been trained to not let the sensitive equipment go down as part of the ship (too easy to find that way I guess). So while the ship burned, these guys gutted the planes and tossed the equipment overboard. then had to face a court for it. I don't know how far it went, but my understanding is that they were dishonorably discharged. Dunno that part for sure though. military justice I guess. "Ogden Johnson III" wrote in message ... "Mike Yared" wrote: China blamed in '01 air collision A Navy report says a Chinese F-8 jet pilot was to blame for the midair collision over the South China Sea that nearly killed the crew of a U.S. reconnaissance aircraft two years ago. at http://www.washtimes.com/national/20...0434-9850r.htm Juliet Foxtrot Charlie, Mike!. You think *that* was news? The crew, Navy, and US Government has *always* maintained that the F-8 pilot crashed into the EP-3. The key part of that report, whether missed by you or the Washington Times deponent won't even try to guess, was that the crew didn't manage to destroy all of the classified material and/or equipment aboard the plane, so some compromise of classified material and/or equipment to the PRC certainly occurred. OJ III [Of course the report didn't identify anything that might have been compromised; and, as reported in the press, did not blame the crew for their failure to destroy everything classified, apparently recognizing that they might have been a tad overtasked by the situation they found themselves in.] |
#8
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Ogden Johnson III wrote:
Luca Morandini wrote: shouldn't he set the autopilot on and bail out himself (after allowing for the rest of the crew to bail out safely, of course) ? Same reason as with the ditching; whatever the aircrew did, there was no guarantee that the aircraft, wherever it crashed, would be unrecoverable. Hmmm... I beg to differ, it would have been MUCH easier for the US Navy to recover/destroy sensitive material than for the Chinese one to do so. Anyway, may I conclude that regulations prescribe sensitive material to be destroyed but NOT at the cost of destroying the entire aircraft or putting the crew in danger ? Regards, ------------------------------------------ Luca Morandini GIS Consultant http://space.virgilio.it/kumora/index.html ------------------------------------------ |
#9
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Luca Morandini wrote:
Ogden Johnson III wrote: Luca Morandini wrote: shouldn't he set the autopilot on and bail out himself (after allowing for the rest of the crew to bail out safely, of course) ? Same reason as with the ditching; whatever the aircrew did, there was no guarantee that the aircraft, wherever it crashed, would be unrecoverable. Hmmm... I beg to differ, it would have been MUCH easier for the US Navy to recover/destroy sensitive material than for the Chinese one to do so. Wouldn't that depend on exactly where the ditched/autopiloted EP-3E ended up? [Wondering at Luca's assumption in the previous post that the EP-3E's autopilot would have been any better in handling a severely damaged aircraft than the pilot himself did.] It could very well have ended up deep inside PRC territorial waters, or even on land within the PRC. Kinda hard for the USN to beat the PLA to the wreck in that case. ;- Anyway, may I conclude that regulations prescribe sensitive material to be destroyed but NOT at the cost of destroying the entire aircraft or putting the crew in danger ? Feel free. I wouldn't, but you certainly can. Regulations will prescribe different things *for* different things. I trust the US learned its lesson from the Pueblo, and that the EP-3E did not carry anything onboard that required destruction of the aircraft, even at the cost of the death of the entire crew, to prevent it from falling into "hostile" hands. There may be secrets that require such extreme protection, but one doesn't put them on an unarmed or under-armed ship or aircraft that you send to snoop around exactly the place you want to protect the secret from. OJ III |
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