Looking at an old Ercoupe today...

You should probably offer him the $18K before the inspection, pending the
outcome. He may think he's already giving you $7K and will balk at another
$3K. I did when something similar happened to me.

Spent several hours tearing it apart this afternoon. Lots of little things
wrong, but no deal-killers.

Compressions are good, and -- most importantly -- when they metalized the
wings they zinc-chromated the spar and all the ribs, so there is no
corrosion. The current owner started a complete restoration back in '02,
replaced or repaired many critical parts (landing gear donuts, tires,
top-end overhaul, new interior, new instruments, new glass) and then lost
interest.

It's great to be partnered with my A&P. It sure lends confidence when
you're looking at a 62 year old plane...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On May 15, 11:54*am, Shirl wrote:

Not as much as I'd like to. I'm a little spoiled by being able wake up
early and just go fly. Hard to stay motivated when you're out of the
habit of waiting around until 2:30 or 3:00 pm. But ... there's nothing
quite like those few seconds just after you release from the tow and it
gets so quiet and peaceful, being at 11,000 feet with the Vario still on
the rise, and ... no possibility of engine failure!

Another big rush (And one that these stupid flying magazine "Glider ad
on " articles always miss), is flying XC in a sailplane. There is
nothing like being a hundred miles out in the early evening and its
just you, your ship, and the atmosphere. With everything else I have
done in aviation, XC Soaring is one of the most rewarding. My power
plane gathers dust during the soaring season. I would pay twice as
much as I do now to pursue the sport and it would still be worth it.
F. Baum
;-)

Shirl

Jay,

Why don't you just build a Kitfox? They burn 5gph and can go 110mph.
They are a lot better looking than an old Ercoupe, and the visibility
with plexiglass doors and turtledeck is awesome...

My friend has a Kitfox 7A that we flew to Oshkosh last year. It was
a long flight, but was fun nonetheless. For local flying or short
trips it is a great little plane.

Dean

Why don't you just build a Kitfox? They burn 5gph and can go 110mph.
They are a lot better looking than an old Ercoupe, and the visibility
with plexiglass doors and turtledeck is awesome...

Whoa, dude -- a Kitfox is better looking than a classic old Ercoupe?

That's just...wrong. An Ercoupe looks like a cross between a
Constellation, a P-38, and a VW bug. It's just....cool!

We're gonna make an offer on it in the next couple of days....
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

snip
That's *if* you own your own sailplane.
Where I flew, it was $35 for the tow (minimum), plus $X/hr for rental of
the sailplane.

You didn't say how much you paid for the 38:1 glass ship!

$11,000 for my 38-1 Sailplane with trailer and Parachute.


And it should be mentioned that taking it home with you in the trailer
vs. having a tiedown/hangar means having help and time to take the wings
off and put them back on each time. I've watched this...they don't go
together as quickly as Lego.


There are some that go together that way. Mostly that has to do with
the owners not putting the time and effort into making the trailers
work well.

5 of the 7 gliders I fly with can be assembled and disassembled in
less the 20 minutes. Less time that it will take you to do a good
preflight and fuel your power plane. The require 2 people for only
about 4 minutes to attach the wings the rest can be done by the pilot.

One of my flights this year, I left my house at 1:00pm drove 10
minutes to the airport with my glider in the trailer, I assembled my
glider, launched and was off tow and thermalling at 1:45. for what
turned out to be a 4 hour flight.


They are unique and wonderful, quiet, less manic than airplanes. But
there is a downside (depending on how you view it). You can't just go to
the airport, gas up your plane, take off and go from Point-A to Point-B.
You need a way to be launched (towplane/auto tow/winch), at least one or
two other people not going with you to help launch you, and if there
isn't any lift, you won't be going far.

Fair enough. But again with the right equipment only a tow pilot is
required.


I wouldn't describe it as "very inexpensive", either! It can go either
way. Sometimes, "inexpensive" is hardly the case, with paying for the
tow and the minimum hourly rental for what ends up being a 20-minute
flight (approximate duration of a tow to 3000 feet with no lift). When
learning and doing several "pattern tows" in a row, it can get downright
expensive very quickly.

Shirl (licensed in gliders before airplanes)

As with nearly any sport you can pay as much as you want. Getting a
glider license can be expensive but if you shop around and are
flexiable it can be inexpensive especially for a transition from
power. I had a freind transition about two years ago for less than
$800.

My annual expenses for about 50 hours of glider time per year have
been less than $1000.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
HP16T

Shirl:
I wouldn't describe it as "very inexpensive", either! It can go either
way. Sometimes, "inexpensive" is hardly the case, with paying for the
tow and the minimum hourly rental for what ends up being a 20-minute
flight (approximate duration of a tow to 3000 feet with no lift). When
learning and doing several "pattern tows" in a row, it can get downright
expensive very quickly.

Shirl (licensed in gliders before airplanes)

Brian:
As with nearly any sport you can pay as much as you want. Getting a
glider license can be expensive but if you shop around and are
flexiable it can be inexpensive especially for a transition from
power. I had a freind transition about two years ago for less than
$800.

My annual expenses for about 50 hours of glider time per year have
been less than $1000.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
HP16T

I'm not trying to paint gliders negatively -- I agree that they're
great, and they *do* enhance power flying. But realistically, not
everyone has even ONE sailport within a reasonable drive from their home
with a vehicle, trailer and today's gasoline prices, let alone being
able to "shop around", and even living in Arizona, 4-hour flights are
possible a few months of the year, but they still don't happen with
*every* launch -- sometimes takes at least a couple of launches to
actually go soaring, and if you pay a minimum of $35/tow, that's at
least $70 for two launches and you may or may not find enough lift to go
soaring for an hour or two. Again, not knocking it at all...just saying
from what I saw at the facilities here (3 gliderports, each about an
hour drive in different directions), 50 hours for $1000 would definitely
have been the exception to the rule.

On May 16, 7:32*pm, "Jay Honeck" wrote:
Why don't you just build a Kitfox? *They burn 5gph and can go 110mph.
They are a lot better looking than an old Ercoupe, and the visibility
with plexiglass doors and turtledeck is awesome...

Whoa, dude -- a Kitfox is better looking than a classic old Ercoupe?

That's just...wrong. * An Ercoupe looks like a cross between a
Constellation, a P-38, and a VW bug. *It's just....cool!

We're gonna make an offer on it in the next couple of days....
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

I have always thought they look pretty ugly myself. An Ercoupe
doesn't look anywhere near as nice as a P-38 or a Connie.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in
newskYWj.110933$TT4.34154@attbi_s22:

So three (of our original six) members are continuing down the road to
finding an old, LSA-compliant airplane. The other three dropped out
because they didn't like the notion of a "family membership" that
would allow multiple pilots on a single club membership. (Not
surprisingly, those were the three single or single-pilot family
folks!)

The three remaining partners already own larger aircraft, and have
similar goals:

1. We want something cheap(er) and more fun to fly
2. We want something our kids/spouses can afford to fly
3. We want an LSA in case we lose our medicals.
4. We like grass-roots aviation. No glass panels or IFR -- just low,
slow, and fun.

One of our original members was an Ercoupe fanatic, which got us
looking in that direction. After exploring those old birds, we all
found them to be...cool. Compared to many "legacy LSAs" (I.E.:
Taylorcraft, Champs, etc.) the Ercoupe is more modern, with tricycle
gear and metal construction -- while at the same time (when compared
to modern aircraft) it is quaint and refreshingly simple.

So, we're bringing one into the shop today, to have a closer look-see.
(One of the partners is my A&P, a guy with 45 years of wrenching
experience.) Anyone care to weigh in on the Ercoupe? Here are the
particulars:

- 1946 Model 416-C
- 85 HP
- 400 SMOH
- Out of annual for 1 year (the owner has another plane, and a very
busy work schedule; he's sort of lost interest in the plane)
- Flown 30 hours since 2000
- Sat for 15 years prior to 2000 (owned by current owner's uncle)
- All-metal wings (all ADs complied with)
- New upholstery/interior
- Luggage compartment enlargement STC
- New yokes
- New shock donuts
- New tires
- Many new instruments/new panel
- Garmin 295 comes with plane

The radios are...junk. For all intents and purposes, we're
considering the radios to be non-existent. There is a good, newly
installed intercom.

Current owner says he's got $28K invested. He's talking $21K. We're
thinking (pending inspection) maybe it's worth $18K.

Any Ercoupe experts out there? Whuddya think?

Another antique is going to be rendered environmentally friendly.


Bertie

On 2008-05-15, Shirl wrote:
You didn't say how much you paid for the 38:1 glass ship!

And to have fun in gliders it doesn't have to be a 38:1 glass ship. I
imagine Iowa has many great thermic days, where going cross country in
an old wood and fabric Ka-8 (which will cost around 4 grand for one in
mint condition, much less for an average one) is not all that difficult
and a lot of fun.

I just did my silver duration in a 38:1 glass ship though, in Scotland
of all places, in thermal lift - further north than the entire
continental US, and much of populated Canada. (And the 38:1 glass ships
don't have to cost the earth - I did my silver duration, which is 5
hours soaring flight, in an ASW-19 that's 30 years old).

Some pictures:
http://www.alioth.net/pics/Aboyne-Ma...s/Image25.html
http://www.alioth.net/pics/Aboyne-Ma...s/Image31.html

The glider certainly doesn't look 30 years old!

I wouldn't describe it as "very inexpensive", either! It can go either
way. Sometimes, "inexpensive" is hardly the case, with paying for the
tow and the minimum hourly rental for what ends up being a 20-minute
flight (approximate duration of a tow to 3000 feet with no lift).

But inexpensive compared to power planes. My 5 hour flight was much
cheaper (in a club ship, not one I owned) than flying 5 hours in a
relatively modest powered aircraft. If you live somewhere with lots of
soarable days, it's a very worthy consideration if you want an aircraft
if your destination is "up", or your destination is a cross country
flight just for the sake of making one. If you already know how to fly
then it doesn't take long to get a glider private. And it *really*
teaches you about weather and airmass - many 25 hour glider pilots have
better appreciation of weather and airmass than 2500 hour power
pilots...and if you're also a power pilot, this translates to better
skill as a power pilot.

--
From the sunny Isle of Man.
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.

wrote in news:90a7865a-7ada-4812-ac6b-221e1bba3ad8
@w4g2000prd.googlegroups.com:

Jay,

Why don't you just build a Kitfox? They burn 5gph and can go 110mph.
They are a lot better looking than an old Ercoupe, and the visibility
with plexiglass doors and turtledeck is awesome...

My friend has a Kitfox 7A that we flew to Oshkosh last year. It was
a long flight, but was fun nonetheless. For local flying or short
trips it is a great little plane.

Dean


It's a taildragger. Until they start installing rollout stabilising
gyros in them , jay couldn't be interested.



Bertie