A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Soaring
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Flight experience



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old January 28th 20, 01:45 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
jp
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 59
Default Flight experience

I've searched the FAA Legal Interpretation website for an answer but haven't found one I understand.

My question is:

Can any of the flight experiences that were used to qualify for a private pilot certificate be subsequently used in part or whole to satisfy the flight experience requirements for a commercial pilot certificate.

Or, must the flight experience requirements for a commercial pilot certificate occur after the applicant has acquired a private pilot certificate.

Thank you.
  #2  
Old January 28th 20, 02:13 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
John Foster
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 354
Default Flight experience

On Monday, January 27, 2020 at 5:45:54 PM UTC-7, jp wrote:
I've searched the FAA Legal Interpretation website for an answer but haven't found one I understand.

My question is:

Can any of the flight experiences that were used to qualify for a private pilot certificate be subsequently used in part or whole to satisfy the flight experience requirements for a commercial pilot certificate.

Or, must the flight experience requirements for a commercial pilot certificate occur after the applicant has acquired a private pilot certificate.

Thank you.


I believe it includes the total flight hours experience you have as a pilot, including all your training for private pilot's licence. Others would know more though.
  #3  
Old January 28th 20, 02:17 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,124
Default Flight experience

On Monday, January 27, 2020 at 7:45:54 PM UTC-5, jp wrote:
I've searched the FAA Legal Interpretation website for an answer but haven't found one I understand.

My question is:

Can any of the flight experiences that were used to qualify for a private pilot certificate be subsequently used in part or whole to satisfy the flight experience requirements for a commercial pilot certificate.

Or, must the flight experience requirements for a commercial pilot certificate occur after the applicant has acquired a private pilot certificate.

Thank you.


FAR's are written through exceptions.
If you do not see anything in the Commercial experience description that says the experience can't be used, you can use it.
I've never heard the question asked before.
  #4  
Old January 28th 20, 02:23 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
jp
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 59
Default Flight experience

On Monday, January 27, 2020 at 4:45:54 PM UTC-8, jp wrote:
I've searched the FAA Legal Interpretation website for an answer but haven't found one I understand.

My question is:

Can any of the flight experiences that were used to qualify for a private pilot certificate be subsequently used in part or whole to satisfy the flight experience requirements for a commercial pilot certificate.

Or, must the flight experience requirements for a commercial pilot certificate occur after the applicant has acquired a private pilot certificate.

Thank you.


I agree that it may be an odd question but it's one that come up from time to time for us.

One issue is that the flight experience for the private certificate is likely done to a lower skill level (+/- 10 kts, etc.) while the flight experience for the commercial certificate is likely done to a higher skill level (+/- 5 kts, etc.). The whole thing makes my head hurt.

  #5  
Old January 28th 20, 02:40 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
jp
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 59
Default Flight experience

On Monday, January 27, 2020 at 4:45:54 PM UTC-8, jp wrote:
I've searched the FAA Legal Interpretation website for an answer but haven't found one I understand.

My question is:

Can any of the flight experiences that were used to qualify for a private pilot certificate be subsequently used in part or whole to satisfy the flight experience requirements for a commercial pilot certificate.

Or, must the flight experience requirements for a commercial pilot certificate occur after the applicant has acquired a private pilot certificate.

Thank you.


Yet another data point. I just found this 2011 FAA Legal Interpretation that may address this question.
This is a reply from the FAA Office of the Chief Counsel to a question from Daniel Murphy:

"The FAA recently issued an interpretation addressing a situation in which a pilot wanted to use the experience he obtained while training for a private pilot certificate to satisfy the night cross country experience required for a commercial pilot certificate. See Oct. 8,2010, Letter to Richard Theriault from Rebecca B. MacPherson, Assistant Chief Counsel for Regulations. The FAA's interpretation did not permit the pilot to use experience that he acquired while training for a private pilot certificate to satisfy the commercial pilot requirements. Id.
Because a student pilot who is training for a private pilot certificate is not expected to perform at commercial-pilot-level standards, the type oftraining contemplated by
§ 61. 129(a)(3)(iii) is not interchangeable with the kind required for a private pilot certificate. See id.; 60 Fed. Reg. at 41181-82. Accordingly, any cross-country training experienced by a student pilot would not be credited toward the requirements of § 61.129(a)(3)(iii)."

I'll keep looking for more info.
  #6  
Old January 28th 20, 11:52 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
IADPE
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 20
Default Flight experience

Keep in mind that any flight time acquired before being rated in the aircraft is either Dual Received or Solo Time- NOT PIC. To log PIC, you must be at least a Light Sport, Recreational, or Private Pilot in that Category and Class. Flight Time in any Category and Class counts toward the Aeronautical Experience Total Flight Time requirement.
  #7  
Old January 28th 20, 06:47 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
jp
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 59
Default Flight experience

On Tuesday, January 28, 2020 at 2:52:30 AM UTC-8, IADPE wrote:
Keep in mind that any flight time acquired before being rated in the aircraft is either Dual Received or Solo Time- NOT PIC. To log PIC, you must be at least a Light Sport, Recreational, or Private Pilot in that Category and Class. Flight Time in any Category and Class counts toward the Aeronautical Experience Total Flight Time requirement.


This may just be angels dancing on the head of a pin but a student may log PIC when flying solo with a current solo endorsement. The student is the only one in the airplane after all. The student is not yet certificated and is not yet rated for the aircraft yet can log the time as PIC.

That "PIC" has two operational meaning is a source of confusion for many of us. "PIC" as in the sole operator of the controls and "PIC" as in the one responsible for the safety of the flight - whether using the controls or not. I gather this is one of the reasons a CFI can log a student training flight as PIC even when the student is the only one on the controls for the entire lesson flight.

And, even though a student pilot with a current solo endorsement can log PIC when flying solo that flight time can be used only to fulfill the flight experience requirements for the private pilot certificate, not for any subsequent certificates the pilot might go on to acquire - according to the FAA Chief Counsel anyway.

  #8  
Old January 28th 20, 06:56 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
jp
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 59
Default Flight experience

On Tuesday, January 28, 2020 at 9:47:49 AM UTC-8, jp wrote:
On Tuesday, January 28, 2020 at 2:52:30 AM UTC-8, IADPE wrote:
Keep in mind that any flight time acquired before being rated in the aircraft is either Dual Received or Solo Time- NOT PIC. To log PIC, you must be at least a Light Sport, Recreational, or Private Pilot in that Category and Class. Flight Time in any Category and Class counts toward the Aeronautical Experience Total Flight Time requirement.


This may just be angels dancing on the head of a pin but a student may log PIC when flying solo with a current solo endorsement. The student is the only one in the airplane after all. The student is not yet certificated and is not yet rated for the aircraft yet can log the time as PIC.

That "PIC" has two operational meaning is a source of confusion for many of us. "PIC" as in the sole operator of the controls and "PIC" as in the one responsible for the safety of the flight - whether using the controls or not. I gather this is one of the reasons a CFI can log a student training flight as PIC even when the student is the only one on the controls for the entire lesson flight.

And, even though a student pilot with a current solo endorsement can log PIC when flying solo that flight time can be used only to fulfill the flight experience requirements for the private pilot certificate, not for any subsequent certificates the pilot might go on to acquire - according to the FAA Chief Counsel anyway.


Here is a segment from an FAA comment on this:

"A student pilot can now log PIC. That’s new, and since there is no restriction, your logbook can be updated so that all student solo time prior to August 4, 1997 may be logged as PIC. When an instructor is aboard, since the student is not rated in the aircraft, flight instruction is still logged as dual not PIC."
  #9  
Old January 28th 20, 07:06 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
jp
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 59
Default Flight experience

On Tuesday, January 28, 2020 at 9:56:52 AM UTC-8, jp wrote:
On Tuesday, January 28, 2020 at 9:47:49 AM UTC-8, jp wrote:
On Tuesday, January 28, 2020 at 2:52:30 AM UTC-8, IADPE wrote:
Keep in mind that any flight time acquired before being rated in the aircraft is either Dual Received or Solo Time- NOT PIC. To log PIC, you must be at least a Light Sport, Recreational, or Private Pilot in that Category and Class. Flight Time in any Category and Class counts toward the Aeronautical Experience Total Flight Time requirement.


This may just be angels dancing on the head of a pin but a student may log PIC when flying solo with a current solo endorsement. The student is the only one in the airplane after all. The student is not yet certificated and is not yet rated for the aircraft yet can log the time as PIC.

That "PIC" has two operational meaning is a source of confusion for many of us. "PIC" as in the sole operator of the controls and "PIC" as in the one responsible for the safety of the flight - whether using the controls or not. I gather this is one of the reasons a CFI can log a student training flight as PIC even when the student is the only one on the controls for the entire lesson flight.

And, even though a student pilot with a current solo endorsement can log PIC when flying solo that flight time can be used only to fulfill the flight experience requirements for the private pilot certificate, not for any subsequent certificates the pilot might go on to acquire - according to the FAA Chief Counsel anyway.


Here is a segment from an FAA comment on this:

"A student pilot can now log PIC. That’s new, and since there is no restriction, your logbook can be updated so that all student solo time prior to August 4, 1997 may be logged as PIC. When an instructor is aboard, since the student is not rated in the aircraft, flight instruction is still logged as dual not PIC."


And just to try to cover this complicated subject a little more fully, a student pilot can log the check ride as PIC - unless the DPE agrees to be the PIC for the check ride flight(s). The confusion never ends.
  #10  
Old January 28th 20, 07:16 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,383
Default Flight experience

My comment....the basic FAR's in the US are succinct, it's the exceptions that are a PITA..... I will assume other countries are similar....
The exceptions are what trip peeps up....
Sorta a...."thou shall ALWAYS do this/thou shall NEVER do this....UNLESS...the moon is full, you scratched your left butt but not the right,, etc., etc., etc.,........"
Sigh.....
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
General Flight Experience - Just Wondering Bob Whelan[_3_] Soaring 3 April 24th 10 04:13 AM
United Airlines Flight Simulator Experience on Ebay Ted[_2_] Piloting 4 April 10th 08 01:20 AM
NASA Research looking for pilots with WSI in-flight weather experience Peter R. Piloting 3 October 20th 04 02:23 AM
61.57 Recent flight experience: Pilot in command Julian Scarfe Piloting 11 February 5th 04 03:06 PM
Opinions/Experience with PC Flight System's eGyro-3, anyone? Andrew Gideon Products 1 January 15th 04 12:12 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:13 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.