If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#21
|
|||
|
|||
Peter Duniho wrote: "Jay Honeck" wrote in message news:ySDZa.117114$Ho3.15619@sccrnsc03... We're living in the only society in history that has FAT poor people, for God's sake. Imagine THAT, just 100 years ago? IMHO, it's just a new twist on the same old problem of poverty. Poor people aren't fat because they get enough to eat. They are fat because food technology has developed to a point where caloric substance is available dirt cheap, but not in anything of high quality. Poor people eat what they can afford, which turns out to mostly be junk food. The fresher the food, the less processed the food, and the fewer additives, the more it costs. A completely organic diet, arguably the healthiest approach, is significantly more expensive than spending a few bucks at McDonald's every meal. This is an oversimplification, of course. There are other factors in why poor people tend to be fat, and of course, there are still plenty of wealthy people who are overweight too. These are all generalizations. But I don't think the large number of overweight poor people is in any way indicative of a particular standard of living. If anything, poor people today have worse nutrition that they did 100 years ago. That's all interesting but the fact is what we call poor really isn't poor. Imagine some guy sitting in the dirt of his hut in some African backwater laughing becaue the Americans declare somebody that makes $20K per year "poor." We have the richest poor people in the world. |
#22
|
|||
|
|||
"Robert Perkins" wrote in message
... It is, since a diet of conventionally farmed fresh foods (potatoes, in-season fruits and veggies, inexpensive meats) is significantly cheaper than McDonald's at every meal, and also cheaper than buying "organic" foods. Not a debate worth having here. However, it is my opinion that a large host of maladies appearing today are a result of mass produced food. Further, there are huge hidden costs with mass produced food, very similar to those associated with energy (including government subsidy). Just because the beef is between $2-10/pound in the grocery, that doesn't mean that's all it costs. If you wish to disagree, fine. There is little documented evidence one way or the other regarding the hazards of mass-produced food. Just a lot of circumstantial evidence. The data on the hidden costs is easier to find, however. Oh, I disagree entirely with that. Unbalanced nutrition is a problem among all Americans And is worse among the poor, just as obesity is. Pete |
#23
|
|||
|
|||
But the African has a sense of humor. Something we are very short on.
-- Gene Seibel Hangar 131 - http://pad39a.com/gene/plane.html Because I fly, I envy no one. That's all interesting but the fact is what we call poor really isn't poor. Imagine some guy sitting in the dirt of his hut in some African backwater laughing becaue the Americans declare somebody that makes $20K per year "poor." We have the richest poor people in the world. |
#24
|
|||
|
|||
"Peter Duniho" wrote in message ...
Poor people aren't fat because they get enough to eat. They are fat because food technology has developed to a point where caloric substance is available dirt cheap, but not in anything of high quality. Poor people eat what they can afford, which turns out to mostly be junk food. The fresher the food, the less processed the food, and the fewer additives, the more it costs. A completely organic diet, arguably the healthiest approach, is significantly more expensive than spending a few bucks at McDonald's every meal. Actually, Pete, as someone who lived on a food budget of $20/month for prolonged times, it's not true that healthy fresh food costs more than "a few bucks at McDonalds". I'll leave the debate about whether "organic" has real meaning and what it means for another newsgroup, let's just talk about fresh or unprocessed foods like carrots potatoes, beans, and rice vs. pre-packaged food from boxes. But I'll put it up front that it will sum to, you're right in principle but mistaken in the details and reasons. As someone who has "BTDT" I can tell you the cheapest way to eat is to go to the farmer's market and come home with 20 lbs of potatoes, 10 lbs of onions, 3 lbs of carrots, celery, couple heads of cabbage, and some in-season fruit. You stick all that in a backpack or canvas bags or what-have-you and lug it home on public transit. Then you go to the local ethnic market and buy a big sack of dried beans and another of rice, not the best quality. At the supermarket you buy veg. oil, generic flour, and cheap pasta. Maybe powdered milk. Maybe canned tuna. Cheese is a special treat, so is fresh milk or butter. Bottle of generic vitamins pref. catch Puritan's 3-for-1 semi-yearly sale and keep the spares in the fridge. What do you eat? Various veg. and bean soups and stews. Chili and rice. Dahl and rice. Potato pancakes. Baked potatoes stuffed with veggies. Pasta w/ veggie sauce, maybe veggie and bean sauce. It's very healthy and very cheap. What's the catch? Well, first, it takes stable storage space. You have to buy in bulk and have a place to keep the stuff where it won't spoil or be infested by rodents or bugs. You need a 'fridge and electricity which will stay on to keep the veggies through the summer, and also to be able to freeze grains and beans to kill insect larvae before storing them at room temp. Second, you need some knowledge. I can cook beans and rice every day for a month and have them taste and appear different each day, because I can cook in the style of 4 major cuisines. But, that takes a lot more know-how than fixing box mac-n-cheese. Then you get into issues of culture and palatability to self and family. My in-laws won't eat a lot of what I cook, for example, while friends gobble it down and say it's delicious. It's too far from their experience. Psychologically it wouldn't work for them. Third, you need planning, both to have the money to buy cheaply in bulk, and to do the advance prep so dinner will be ready before 10 pm. To buy different beans and spices every week so that after a couple months you have some variety. Fourth, you need some time. You have to be able to take a Saturday morning once a month and go to the markets. You have to have time to chop veggies and wash beans and get it going in a crockpot or something while you work, or else have a couple hours to cook dinner. For people who have many kids and are working 2 shifts already, that's non-trivial. Transportation is also an issue in a lot of places. It might take 3 bus changes and 2 hrs, not so simple while you're lugging around 40 lbs of veggies and herding a gaggle of kids. Or it might just take a car, which means gas and maybe parking issues. So you go to the local market, and in the poor areas of most cities that means cheap box and canned food and expensive, poor quality fruits and veggies. Lastly, while it's much much cheaper than "a few bucks at McDonalds every meal" especially when you're feeding several mouths, it DOES turn out that prepared, boxed foods from places like Aldi's are even cheaper. Stuff like scalloped potatoes, mac-n-cheese, Ramen noodles. AND, it needs less planning, less preparation, and less care in storage. It also satisfies cultural issues for a lot of people. But, you're right, it's crap -- high in calories and low in nutrition. It is true that there are issues involved w/ poverty and nutrition, but they aren't that simple as "fresh food is more expensive than McDonalds". Anyone who thinks that hasn't had much experience feeding 5 mouths on a tight budget. Cheers, Sydney |
#26
|
|||
|
|||
"Donovan" wrote in message
om... [...] You few jack-asses that high-jacked this thread go IM each other somewhere and leave this thread to the topic Are you serious? This thread was off-topic from the get-go. Get a grip. |
#27
|
|||
|
|||
"Snowbird" wrote in message
om... It is true that there are issues involved w/ poverty and nutrition, but they aren't that simple as "fresh food is more expensive than McDonalds". IMHO, you just proved my point. All five components of your low-cost meal plan are in short supply for most poor people in this country. Education being one of the most significant. Pete |
#28
|
|||
|
|||
Peter Duniho wrote:
However, that's not my point. You have the same tunnel vision Jay has. All I'm saying is that it's fallacious to think that the obesity of poor people in any way indicates an improvement in their nutrition. I would bet that more people die of obesity-related illness today than died of starvation in 1903 (per capita, of course). And I wouldn't bet that, so now we're even, since neither of us has data. Our fundamental disagreement seems to be that I believe things have gotten significantly better for pretty much everyone (though not by the same amounts, but still better for all), and you seem to believe that things haven't. Your privilege, of course. And now that the thread has completely departed from the realms of aviation... ....Peter -- Peter H. Schmidt Lifting Mind Inc. _/ Speaking \_ 2 Ewell Avenue www.liftingmind.com \ for myself / Lexington, MA 02421 fax: 781 863-8858 tel: 781 863-5200 |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
American nazi pond scum, version two | bushite kills bushite | Naval Aviation | 0 | December 21st 04 10:46 PM |
Hey! What fun!! Let's let them kill ourselves!!! | [email protected] | Naval Aviation | 2 | December 17th 04 09:45 PM |
35th's Life Support Section named best in the Air Force | Otis Willie | Military Aviation | 0 | July 16th 04 11:08 PM |
Cirrus Airframe Life Limits | Dave | Owning | 16 | April 27th 04 05:58 PM |