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Sparrowhawk vs PW5



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 23rd 04, 11:51 PM
Willie
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Default Sparrowhawk vs PW5

I have been looking at some of the current crop of lightweight
sailplanes
on the market and wonder if the sparrowhawk is a good value. Does
anyone have any experience flying one? If so how would it compare to a
PW5 or a Russia?

The price of a new Sparrowhawk with trailer and instruments is pretty
high compared to some of other ships available. I am interested in
these ships because I am not a competition pilot, and I don't have a
crew. So, a ship that is easy to rig and retrieve is desirable to me.

I really am looking for some advice from people with experience in
these smaller ships.

I'm not a new pilot, I am returning after a 15 year hiatus from the
sport. I have had a Libelle and a DG 202-17. I appreciate the info in
the last thread but it veered of onto the realm of trailer towing
weight.
  #2  
Old February 24th 04, 01:27 AM
Joseph L. Hyde
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Willie,

I don't have experience "flying" any of those aircraft. I did visit
serial number 4 sparrowhawk at it's owner's workshop yesterday. I am VERY
impressed with this aircraft. The wings do indeed weigh 42 lbs each. (I
have an LS-3 so light wings really impress me) The cockpit is wider and
roomier than my LS. All reports are that the performance is better than
advertised. This is indeed going to be a revolutionary aircraft. From all
the reports of the 15 meter design in this series, I might just sell the
cars, house and first born to get my hands on a duckhawk. I think that
this aircraft is in a category far beyond the PW5 or Russia. When the
owner gets into the air with this machine it's performance coupled with the
owner's experience will probably leave me in the dust in my 15 meter ship.


Take Care and Fly Safe,

Joe Hyde


"Willie" wrote in message
...
I have been looking at some of the current crop of lightweight
sailplanes
on the market and wonder if the sparrowhawk is a good value. Does
anyone have any experience flying one? If so how would it compare to a
PW5 or a Russia?

The price of a new Sparrowhawk with trailer and instruments is pretty
high compared to some of other ships available. I am interested in
these ships because I am not a competition pilot, and I don't have a
crew. So, a ship that is easy to rig and retrieve is desirable to me.

I really am looking for some advice from people with experience in
these smaller ships.

I'm not a new pilot, I am returning after a 15 year hiatus from the
sport. I have had a Libelle and a DG 202-17. I appreciate the info in
the last thread but it veered of onto the realm of trailer towing
weight.



  #3  
Old February 24th 04, 01:45 AM
Ted Wagner
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I haven't flown either of those ships either, but I took close looks at both of them up close and in person when I was trying to decide what I was going to buy.

First, you might be comparing apples and oranges. The Sparrowhawk is an ultralight glider (a very intentional design goal to avoid FAA certification expenses), the PW-5 is not, and is significantly smaller than the -5 (less than 12 meter wingspan).

If I had no interest in competition or serious cross-country and I had to choose between a Sparrowhawk and PW-5, I'd pick the Sparrowhawk; the performance is most impressive and they look like a blast to fly.

-tw

"Willie" wrote in message ...
I have been looking at some of the current crop of lightweight
sailplanes
on the market and wonder if the sparrowhawk is a good value. Does
anyone have any experience flying one? If so how would it compare to a
PW5 or a Russia?

The price of a new Sparrowhawk with trailer and instruments is pretty
high compared to some of other ships available. I am interested in
these ships because I am not a competition pilot, and I don't have a
crew. So, a ship that is easy to rig and retrieve is desirable to me.

I really am looking for some advice from people with experience in
these smaller ships.

I'm not a new pilot, I am returning after a 15 year hiatus from the
sport. I have had a Libelle and a DG 202-17. I appreciate the info in
the last thread but it veered of onto the realm of trailer towing
weight.

  #4  
Old February 24th 04, 05:59 AM
Robertmudd1u
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I have been looking at some of the current crop of lightweight
sailplanes


Willie, Take a look at the Apis.
www.apisgliders.com
I think you will find something you like.

Robert Mudd
  #5  
Old February 24th 04, 02:45 PM
John
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I have flown both the Russia and the PW5. No comparison, the Russia
is much better. Easier to assemble, better performance with the
retract gear, greater control harmony, more durable.

Next on the development list for the Russia is a 13m wing (up from
12.6m wing) with winglets and flaps. This will be the AC-4D model.
Prototype already flying, likely production will start once the new US
distributor is announced this year.

Clearly, adding flaps to the Russia seems a direct response to the
Apis. Not flown an Apis, but if the Russians are copying it, must be
doing some things right.

You might check the Silent too. Have interesting self launch
versions.

Not sure the Sparrowhawk directly compares to these others. It is an
ultralight, so have different set of rules (no certification, resale
value??). One good thing is the ability to paint the plane something
other than white due to the high temperature tolerance of the
composite. Also, being light weight, should be very easy to tow,
allowing good launches on very hot summer days. One wonders if it
more "hang glider" in its manner and capable of finding micro-lift
other sailplanes can't use. In any case, the light weight will result
in a more bumpy ride....weight does tend to cancel out turbulence a
bit.

John
  #6  
Old February 24th 04, 02:58 PM
N5360C
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Willie:

I will second Robert Mudd's recommendation. I have flown the 13 meter
Apis, and it is light, responsive and sporty without being an
ultralight. With its flaps (actually flaperons), the Apis climbs like
a lovesick angel in very light thermals but still makes very good time
over the ground. Workmanship is also exceptional, and the wing panels
are light enough to make handling no problem whatsoever. On top of
the super performance and ease of assembly, availability is something
you might want to compare as you're looking. Your search will not be
complete without considering the Apis, and I think you'll be glad you
looked.

Fred LaSor
  #7  
Old February 24th 04, 03:42 PM
nafod40
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John wrote:

Not sure the Sparrowhawk directly compares to these others. It is an
ultralight, so have different set of rules (no certification, resale
value??).


Because it is an ultralight, it has its own categories for setting FAI
records, correct? It looks like the category is wide open too, with
plenty of room to push out the records.

  #8  
Old February 24th 04, 10:20 PM
Mark James Boyd
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John wrote:

Not sure the Sparrowhawk directly compares to these others. It is an
ultralight, so have different set of rules (no certification, resale
value??). One good thing is the ability to paint the plane something
other than white due to the high temperature tolerance of the
composite. Also, being light weight, should be very easy to tow,
allowing good launches on very hot summer days. One wonders if it
more "hang glider" in its manner and capable of finding micro-lift
other sailplanes can't use. In any case, the light weight will result
in a more bumpy ride....weight does tend to cancel out turbulence a
bit.


I was a little surprised that over the past few years, if
I recall correctly, the Sparrowhawk has gone from a base price
in the low $20 thousands to now the low $30 thousands.
With likely options and tax, more like $40K. At $260 a pound,
it's a good thing one is paying for less weight and not more.

Anybody who thinks there's no rampant inflation in the US
must just be buying Wonder bread and Campbell's soup...

For that much moula, I could buy a nice Russia or Grob-103,
and train and pay standby rates for a coupla teenagers
as crew to do ALL the lifting...

  #9  
Old February 25th 04, 03:23 PM
John
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There are several clubs where you can rent a Russia or a PW5. Try one
and see which one is more fun to fly.

Also, there many clubs where you can watch/assist a private owner
assemble a privately owned Russia or PW5. This might be a good thing
to do, get some hands on experience and owner feedback. Other issues,
like how good is the trailer, also come into play when deciding which
plane to buy. You also get feedback on "improvements" made to each
plane. For example, Russian tailwheels are horrible, but you can
replace them with either an aluminum or nylon Tost tailwheel ($130) or
figure out how to add air each flight to a non-standard air valve (2
easy, cheap ways actually). Or how do you add a boom mike to a PW5?
Where do you store the water bottle in each one? Little things like
this are not in the sales brochure!

I am not sure the Apis, Silent, or Sparrowhawk are readily available
at the club level yet. The dealers seem helpful, though.
  #10  
Old February 25th 04, 06:06 PM
Robertmudd1u
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Because it is an ultralight, it has its own categories for setting FAI
records, correct?


Being an part 103 ultralight in the US is not the same as being an ultralight
for the FAI record catogory.

Go to www.apisgliders.com and click on the link to the FAI site for details.

Robert Mudd
 




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