Trig TT21 + TN72 TABS ADS-B Out Install working great....

I just helped set up the Ramy Yanetz ASG29's TRIG TT21 transponder with a TN72 GPS Source to use as a TABS ADS-B out system. That along with PowerFLARM in his glider makes for a pretty capable overall traffic awareness/collision avoidance system.

Here is a screenshot of my portable Stratux ADS-B receiver (as would be used in many GA aircraft) receiving the ADS-B signal from the TT21 over 20 nautical miles away. Yes, it's a wave day out at Williams.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Kik...SlslyEyMPo62Mu

And again just an reminder, the TN72 is a ~$350 (+ GPS antenna + install costs) GPS Source that can easily be added to any Trig transponder to deliver ADS-B Out in your glider. (If you need full 2020 Compliant ADS-B Out it's a little more involved). This is low-enough cost that it will likely be a "just do it" choice for owners who already have a Trig transponder, and who especially want to provide more visibility to GA traffic (and it makes your glider visible to PowerFLARM buddies at much longer distances).

On Sunday, February 11, 2018 at 6:04:37 PM UTC-5, Darryl Ramm wrote:
I just helped set up the Ramy Yanetz ASG29's TRIG TT21 transponder with a TN72 GPS Source to use as a TABS ADS-B out system. That along with PowerFLARM in his glider makes for a pretty capable overall traffic awareness/collision avoidance system.

Here is a screenshot of my portable Stratux ADS-B receiver (as would be used in many GA aircraft) receiving the ADS-B signal from the TT21 over 20 nautical miles away. Yes, it's a wave day out at Williams.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Kik...SlslyEyMPo62Mu

And again just an reminder, the TN72 is a ~$350 (+ GPS antenna + install costs) GPS Source that can easily be added to any Trig transponder to deliver ADS-B Out in your glider. (If you need full 2020 Compliant ADS-B Out it's a little more involved). This is low-enough cost that it will likely be a "just do it" choice for owners who already have a Trig transponder, and who especially want to provide more visibility to GA traffic (and it makes your glider visible to PowerFLARM buddies at much longer distances).

Please expand on make/model antennae used and where it is located on G29.

Most Trig glider dealers should be able to provide an antenna and either it will have a QMA antenna on it or they will install one for you and cut the GPS antenna cable to your length spec. I know Richard at Craggy Aero can do that for you.... he had one in his hand waving it at me when I last saw him :-) Give him a call.

There is nothing special about the GPS antenna mounting location, or really the GPS antenna itself... but the dealers have been checking out specific antennas. You install it in the same location as you would a GPS antenna for your flight computer.

Please don't use the silly TA70 wall wart antenna. That is TSO-ed-silliness on a stick, just not something suitable for a glider, and seems pretty contrary to the original easy adoption intent of TABS/TSO-C199. TRIG is aware of this, the TA70 came from earlier STCs for 2020 Compliant ADS-B Out installs.










On Sunday, February 11, 2018 at 3:13:48 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Sunday, February 11, 2018 at 6:04:37 PM UTC-5, Darryl Ramm wrote:
I just helped set up the Ramy Yanetz ASG29's TRIG TT21 transponder with a TN72 GPS Source to use as a TABS ADS-B out system. That along with PowerFLARM in his glider makes for a pretty capable overall traffic awareness/collision avoidance system.

Here is a screenshot of my portable Stratux ADS-B receiver (as would be used in many GA aircraft) receiving the ADS-B signal from the TT21 over 20 nautical miles away. Yes, it's a wave day out at Williams.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Kik...SlslyEyMPo62Mu

And again just an reminder, the TN72 is a ~$350 (+ GPS antenna + install costs) GPS Source that can easily be added to any Trig transponder to deliver ADS-B Out in your glider. (If you need full 2020 Compliant ADS-B Out it's a little more involved). This is low-enough cost that it will likely be a "just do it" choice for owners who already have a Trig transponder, and who especially want to provide more visibility to GA traffic (and it makes your glider visible to PowerFLARM buddies at much longer distances).

Please expand on make/model antennae used and where it is located on G29.

On Sunday, February 11, 2018 at 6:04:37 PM UTC-5, Darryl Ramm wrote:
I just helped set up the Ramy Yanetz ASG29's TRIG TT21 transponder with a TN72 GPS Source to use as a TABS ADS-B out system. That along with PowerFLARM in his glider makes for a pretty capable overall traffic awareness/collision avoidance system.

So Ramy is using the PowerFlarm for ADS-B In? What display? Is it linked to a moving map? Any significant limitations to that configuration?

My ClearNav II displays ADS-B In targets generated by my PowerFlarm
portable unit.

A question for Darryl (or a general whine):Â* My Stemme is exempt from
the ADS-B requirement as a glider but, since it's a certificated
aircraft, I probably can't use the TN-72 GPS with my TT22 transponder.Â*
Is there any chance of such a system being installed in a certificated
glider?

Dan

On 2/11/2018 5:01 PM, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Sunday, February 11, 2018 at 6:04:37 PM UTC-5, Darryl Ramm wrote:
I just helped set up the Ramy Yanetz ASG29's TRIG TT21 transponder with a TN72 GPS Source to use as a TABS ADS-B out system. That along with PowerFLARM in his glider makes for a pretty capable overall traffic awareness/collision avoidance system.
So Ramy is using the PowerFlarm for ADS-B In? What display? Is it linked to a moving map? Any significant limitations to that configuration?

--
Dan, 5J

On Sunday, February 11, 2018 at 4:35:10 PM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
My ClearNav II displays ADS-B In targets generated by my PowerFlarm
portable unit.

A question for Darryl (or a general whine):Â* My Stemme is exempt from
the ADS-B requirement as a glider but, since it's a certificated
aircraft, I probably can't use the TN-72 GPS with my TT22 transponder.Â*
Is there any chance of such a system being installed in a certificated
glider?

Dan

On 2/11/2018 5:01 PM, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Sunday, February 11, 2018 at 6:04:37 PM UTC-5, Darryl Ramm wrote:
I just helped set up the Ramy Yanetz ASG29's TRIG TT21 transponder with a TN72 GPS Source to use as a TABS ADS-B out system. That along with PowerFLARM in his glider makes for a pretty capable overall traffic awareness/collision avoidance system.
So Ramy is using the PowerFlarm for ADS-B In? What display? Is it linked to a moving map? Any significant limitations to that configuration?

--
Dan, 5J

Dan

You can use the TN72 with any Trig Transponder in your type certificated glider... but only as a TABS ADS-B Out setup... which means in practice you get all the benefits of ADS-B Out... except you can't use that to meet any 2020 ADS-B Out flight requirements... e.g. you could not say fly in Class A, B or C airspace, etc. with your glider after January 1, 2020 with a TABS ADS-B setup. But as for use in advertising your position to ADS-B In equipped aircraft and ATC, and making you an ADS-B client aircraft (if say you want to get TIS-B services to a Stratus/Stratux box)... that all works great just doing TABS.

If you want to operate your Stemme after January 1 2020 in areas that require ADS-B Out for gliders then you would need a "2020 compliant" install, which with a Trig transponder would normally use a TN70 TSO-C145c GPS Source. (And in this case the TSO is important... and the silliness is if this was an experimental glider you could actually use the TN72 for a 2020 compliant install). Having fun yet?

And yes you have a right to whine. ADS-B is a painful unfortunate confusing mess. But I can't even play the piano so don't shoot me :-)

Darryl

On Sunday, February 11, 2018 at 4:01:58 PM UTC-8, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Sunday, February 11, 2018 at 6:04:37 PM UTC-5, Darryl Ramm wrote:
I just helped set up the Ramy Yanetz ASG29's TRIG TT21 transponder with a TN72 GPS Source to use as a TABS ADS-B out system. That along with PowerFLARM in his glider makes for a pretty capable overall traffic awareness/collision avoidance system.

So Ramy is using the PowerFlarm for ADS-B In? What display? Is it linked to a moving map? Any significant limitations to that configuration?

(sorry if we get repeat replies here, Google groups seems to be having problems with my replies)

This ASG29 has a LX9000 display and the setup with his PowerFLARM has not changed... it receives 1090ES In like all most of the PowerFLARM sold in the USA and displays that on the LX9000 just as it had previously. All that was done recently was send the TT21 in for a firmware update (required for TABS/ADS-B Out) and have the TN72 connected and the half dozen or so software settings twiddled in the TT21 to set it up for TABS.

And as I have warned about before on r.a.s. ... PowerFLARM does not decode ADS-R or TIS-B and having 1090ES Out/TABS does not change anything here. But with so much traffic being 1090ES Out you at least see that... and like today... all the traffic anywhere near the area was 1090ES Out (I have a dual-link receiver and was watching for that). But now Ramy's glider has 1090ES Out and is visible to other aircraft via 1090ES direct, and possibly ADS-R to suitably equipped UAT client aircraft, and via ADS-B to ATC. BTW since I've also been saying this at some recent talks/seminars I'll say it here as well... the good folks at FLARM are well aware of lack of ADS-R and TIS-B support with PowerFLARM. I have hope there will be a solution there in future.

It was a just-do-it choice for me when Darryl explained all the ins and outs a few months ago. I truly don't want to get run over by a putt-putt especially now as more and more power pilots will have their nose down playing with new electronic toys. For an incremental $350, it's really a no-brainer and it's not a difficult install. Thank you Darryl for all the great information and explanations on this forum. Richard was quite helpful for me as well.

And again just an reminder, the TN72 is a ~$350 (+ GPS antenna + install costs) GPS Source that can easily be added to any Trig transponder to deliver ADS-B Out in your glider. (If you need full 2020 Compliant ADS-B Out it's a little more involved). This is low-enough cost that it will likely be a "just do it" choice for owners who already have a Trig transponder, and who especially want to provide more visibility to GA traffic (and it makes your glider visible to PowerFLARM buddies at much longer distances).

On Sunday, February 11, 2018 at 6:52:03 PM UTC-5, Darryl Ramm wrote:
Most Trig glider dealers should be able to provide an antenna and either it will have a QMA antenna on it or they will install one for you and cut the GPS antenna cable to your length spec. I know Richard at Craggy Aero can do that for you.... he had one in his hand waving it at me when I last saw him :-) Give him a call.

There is nothing special about the GPS antenna mounting location, or really the GPS antenna itself... but the dealers have been checking out specific antennas. You install it in the same location as you would a GPS antenna for your flight computer.

Please don't use the silly TA70 wall wart antenna. That is TSO-ed-silliness on a stick, just not something suitable for a glider, and seems pretty contrary to the original easy adoption intent of TABS/TSO-C199. TRIG is aware of this, the TA70 came from earlier STCs for 2020 Compliant ADS-B Out installs.










On Sunday, February 11, 2018 at 3:13:48 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Sunday, February 11, 2018 at 6:04:37 PM UTC-5, Darryl Ramm wrote:
I just helped set up the Ramy Yanetz ASG29's TRIG TT21 transponder with a TN72 GPS Source to use as a TABS ADS-B out system. That along with PowerFLARM in his glider makes for a pretty capable overall traffic awareness/collision avoidance system.

Here is a screenshot of my portable Stratux ADS-B receiver (as would be used in many GA aircraft) receiving the ADS-B signal from the TT21 over 20 nautical miles away. Yes, it's a wave day out at Williams.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Kik...SlslyEyMPo62Mu

And again just an reminder, the TN72 is a ~$350 (+ GPS antenna + install costs) GPS Source that can easily be added to any Trig transponder to deliver ADS-B Out in your glider. (If you need full 2020 Compliant ADS-B Out it's a little more involved). This is low-enough cost that it will likely be a "just do it" choice for owners who already have a Trig transponder, and who especially want to provide more visibility to GA traffic (and it makes your glider visible to PowerFLARM buddies at much longer distances).

Please expand on make/model antennae used and where it is located on G29.

Too many antenna. 4 GPS and 2 FLARM within 30". We need a reliable way to split/share GPS signal off a single antennae.

On Sunday, February 11, 2018 at 5:57:21 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Sunday, February 11, 2018 at 6:52:03 PM UTC-5, Darryl Ramm wrote:
Most Trig glider dealers should be able to provide an antenna and either it will have a QMA antenna on it or they will install one for you and cut the GPS antenna cable to your length spec. I know Richard at Craggy Aero can do that for you.... he had one in his hand waving it at me when I last saw him :-) Give him a call.

There is nothing special about the GPS antenna mounting location, or really the GPS antenna itself... but the dealers have been checking out specific antennas. You install it in the same location as you would a GPS antenna for your flight computer.

Please don't use the silly TA70 wall wart antenna. That is TSO-ed-silliness on a stick, just not something suitable for a glider, and seems pretty contrary to the original easy adoption intent of TABS/TSO-C199. TRIG is aware of this, the TA70 came from earlier STCs for 2020 Compliant ADS-B Out installs.










On Sunday, February 11, 2018 at 3:13:48 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Sunday, February 11, 2018 at 6:04:37 PM UTC-5, Darryl Ramm wrote:
I just helped set up the Ramy Yanetz ASG29's TRIG TT21 transponder with a TN72 GPS Source to use as a TABS ADS-B out system. That along with PowerFLARM in his glider makes for a pretty capable overall traffic awareness/collision avoidance system.

Here is a screenshot of my portable Stratux ADS-B receiver (as would be used in many GA aircraft) receiving the ADS-B signal from the TT21 over 20 nautical miles away. Yes, it's a wave day out at Williams.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Kik...SlslyEyMPo62Mu

And again just an reminder, the TN72 is a ~$350 (+ GPS antenna + install costs) GPS Source that can easily be added to any Trig transponder to deliver ADS-B Out in your glider. (If you need full 2020 Compliant ADS-B Out it's a little more involved). This is low-enough cost that it will likely be a "just do it" choice for owners who already have a Trig transponder, and who especially want to provide more visibility to GA traffic (and it makes your glider visible to PowerFLARM buddies at much longer distances).

Please expand on make/model antennae used and where it is located on G29.

Too many antenna. 4 GPS and 2 FLARM within 30". We need a reliable way to split/share GPS signal off a single antennae.

http://www.craggyaero.com/antennas.htm

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Richard
www.craggyaero.com