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#1
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ATP wants a single engine add on
And for some reason he's picked me for the honor of training him.
But I'm a little confused on one thing. He claims to have a commercial-multi, limited to centerline thrust, and an ATP multi, unrestricted, with 737 and 757/767 type ratings. I wasn't aware that you could have both those certificates...is that true? And if it is, onto which certificate does the single engine airplane add on go? And one last question. I know I'd never, ever, train a primary student, as long as it's been since I instructed, but this shouldn't be a huge deal, right? |
#2
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ATP wants a single engine add on
I've done it. Its an odd combination. On one hand they know the ATC
system very well (although I've found they believe the VFR system is more restrictive than it is), on the other hand, there is some basic stick-rudder items that they will be lacking. I did a C-182T (glass cockpit) checkout with a 727 pilot once. When I asked him to do power on stalls, the thought occured to me to ask him if he knew which rudder was going to be needed to stay coordinated in the stall. "Left?" he said. My pointis that you need to remember that, dispite your student's knowledge in some areas, he's a student pilot in others. -Robert, CFII Emily wrote: And for some reason he's picked me for the honor of training him. But I'm a little confused on one thing. He claims to have a commercial-multi, limited to centerline thrust, and an ATP multi, unrestricted, with 737 and 757/767 type ratings. I wasn't aware that you could have both those certificates...is that true? And if it is, onto which certificate does the single engine airplane add on go? And one last question. I know I'd never, ever, train a primary student, as long as it's been since I instructed, but this shouldn't be a huge deal, right? |
#3
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ATP wants a single engine add on
My guess is that he is ex-mil... to account for the resume you've
listed. It DOES sound weird tho.. You would think the ATP would override the commercial multi CLT.. As for which one it adds on to: My guess is.. which ever one he wants.. He can train for a ASEL ride to private, commercial or ATP standards provided he has the time in type for the add-on. (havent looked at the applicable reg for this one as to any required hours). I'm guessing he just has to declare in advance which ride he is taking, then meet the standards for it. Dave Emily wrote: And for some reason he's picked me for the honor of training him. But I'm a little confused on one thing. He claims to have a commercial-multi, limited to centerline thrust, and an ATP multi, unrestricted, with 737 and 757/767 type ratings. I wasn't aware that you could have both those certificates...is that true? And if it is, onto which certificate does the single engine airplane add on go? And one last question. I know I'd never, ever, train a primary student, as long as it's been since I instructed, but this shouldn't be a huge deal, right? |
#4
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ATP wants a single engine add on
BTW: I would also recommend that you avoid getting into a battle of
"who's the best pilot". This can happen when you are training pilots with lots of experience. Sometimes you just need to address it head on. You may say something along the lines of "I know that you are a very experienced pilot. Let's go out and review the basic items in our syllabus. Maybe you'll learn something new, but worse case you'll get my sign off for the checkride". Usually, if something goes terribly wrong (like they can't land the Cessna), they'll understand something is wrong and not put up a fight when you ask them for a few more hours before the sign off. Most important, don't enter with the attitude of "I know more than that guy", it doesn't help either way and you may trigger a negative defense mechanism in him. -Robert |
#5
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ATP wants a single engine add on
Dave S wrote:
My guess is that he is ex-mil... to account for the resume you've listed. He is. Has never flown a single. It DOES sound weird tho.. You would think the ATP would override the commercial multi CLT.. That's what I thought. Granted, he *could* just be carrying around the invalid commercial, assuming it's still valid. Not sure what good it is. As for which one it adds on to: My guess is.. which ever one he wants.. He can train for a ASEL ride to private, commercial or ATP standards provided he has the time in type for the add-on. (havent looked at the applicable reg for this one as to any required hours). I'm trying to make it make sense by thinking of it how I did it. I had a commercial single and just added the multi on. I believe it's the same thing, no? He wouldn't have to go approaches, since that's a commercial multi thing, but he'd had to add it at least at the commercial or ATP level, because that's what he already has. At least, as far as I can tell. |
#6
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ATP wants a single engine add on
On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 17:43:08 -0500, Emily
wrote: And for some reason he's picked me for the honor of training him. But I'm a little confused on one thing. He claims to have a commercial-multi, limited to centerline thrust, and an ATP multi, unrestricted, with 737 and 757/767 type ratings. I wasn't aware that you could have both those certificates...is that true? And if it is, onto which certificate does the single engine airplane add on go? And one last question. I know I'd never, ever, train a primary student, as long as it's been since I instructed, but this shouldn't be a huge deal, right? While I don't know the answer, I gave someone a BFR a couple months ago with the same situation (except for the centerline thrust limitation). I wasn't sure of the exact way to sign him off, so I just left out the type of certificate he had as literally every other instructor had done for the past 10 years. Whatever you learn here, you may want to call the FSDO and/or examiner who will do the check ride to make sure you satisfy them. z |
#7
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ATP wants a single engine add on
He has an ATP MEL, the center-line thrust limitation should
have been lifted. I have an ATP SMEL and since I held an ASES as a commercial pilot before I got the ATP, the SES is listed on my certificate as commercial privileges. But I think the failure to remove the limitation on his ATP is a clerical error. He may have gotten a MEL center thrust from a military rating or from a Cessna 337. In any case, FAR 61, additional ratings applies, but if he adds-on at the commercial practical test level he needs all the endorsements and instructor sign-offs, but if he takes the tests at the ATP level, he just does it. "Emily" wrote in message . .. | And for some reason he's picked me for the honor of training him. | | But I'm a little confused on one thing. He claims to have a | commercial-multi, limited to centerline thrust, and an ATP multi, | unrestricted, with 737 and 757/767 type ratings. I wasn't aware that | you could have both those certificates...is that true? | | And if it is, onto which certificate does the single engine airplane add | on go? | | And one last question. I know I'd never, ever, train a primary student, | as long as it's been since I instructed, but this shouldn't be a huge | deal, right? |
#8
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ATP wants a single engine add on
The CLT multi-commercial should have been surrendered, do
they both have the same number and name. Have you checked on the FAA web site for his official ratings? "Emily" wrote in message ... | Dave S wrote: | My guess is that he is ex-mil... to account for the resume you've | listed. | | He is. Has never flown a single. | | It DOES sound weird tho.. You would think the ATP would override | the commercial multi CLT.. | | That's what I thought. Granted, he *could* just be carrying around the | invalid commercial, assuming it's still valid. Not sure what good it is. | | As for which one it adds on to: My guess is.. which ever one he wants.. | He can train for a ASEL ride to private, commercial or ATP standards | provided he has the time in type for the add-on. (havent looked at the | applicable reg for this one as to any required hours). | | I'm trying to make it make sense by thinking of it how I did it. I had | a commercial single and just added the multi on. I believe it's the | same thing, no? He wouldn't have to go approaches, since that's a | commercial multi thing, but he'd had to add it at least at the | commercial or ATP level, because that's what he already has. | | At least, as far as I can tell. |
#9
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ATP wants a single engine add on
Jim Macklin wrote:
The CLT multi-commercial should have been surrendered, do they both have the same number and name. Have you checked on the FAA web site for his official ratings? He's opted out (or he's lying about being a pilot, but I've seen him walk off a commercial jet in uniform and with ID, so I'm guessing he's opted out). I'm guessing that when he got his ATP, he should have surrendered his commercial but didn't for some reason. I have a feeling it has to do with his military experience. So let me get this straight, if he adds on to the commercial (which I don't think he can do, since he shouldn't have one) it requires the training and signoffs, but if he adds on to the ATP, it doesn't? Can you point in me in the right direction for added on ATP ratings? |
#10
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ATP wants a single engine add on
Emily wrote:
I'm guessing that when he got his ATP, he should have surrendered his commercial but didn't for some reason. one pretty good reason not to surrender a certificate when you upgrade it, is if said certificate has a rating which you do not want to give up and which is not covered by the new certificate. Although this is not exactly germane to this discussion, I did keep my old private certificate (obtained under 61.75 (*)) even though I now have a commercial, because said private certificate still has my glider rating on it; could it be a similar situation? --Sylvain (*) before someone jumps all over me quoting 61.75(b)(3), whereby you cannot get a certificate under 61.75 if you already hold a US pilot certificate, nothing prevents you from keeping it after you get a US certificate. But I digress :-) |
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