Who plays golf at Nellis?

"BUFDRVR" wrote in message
...
There has been talk here that retired military who play golf at Nellis
call
the
shots concerning traffic patterns.The most avid golfer at Nellis is the
CO..And
nobody gives a damn what the retired military thinks or wants. You figure
it
out.

You really need to lose that over grown chip on your shoulder. The golf
courses in this discussion are *off base* courses.


BUFDRVR

Any of you guys hear about the goose/golf course flap at Langley a few years
ago? (mid-90's)

There was a proposal to capture and kill a bunch of geese on base. The
original story was a safety of flight issue. No more bird strikes. PETA &
SPCA got all huffy about it, etc. Long local discussions.

Well...the local paper ( www.dailypress.com ) somehow got hold of a long
email chain, and published it in a Sunday edition.

Pretty clearly showed that the problem was not birdstrike reduction, but
instead all the goose poop on the golf course. ACC was hosting an upcoming
conference, and they wanted the golf course looking nice.

Pete

Subject: Who plays golf at Nellis?
From: (BUFDRVR)
Date: 7/23/03 7:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

There is no comparison of enlisted folks to officers, even today. I
probably wouldn't trust anyone below (E-6) to make a decision on
their own, where it involved multi-millions, or 40 peoples lives.

How about 5? I trusted my life and that of my crew to anywhere between 2 and
10
E-3 through E-5's nearly every sortie, and after getting to know these young
men (and a few women) I never had a worry in the world. In fact, I literally
never worried about the condition of my jet, *ever*!


BUFDRVR


I still think they are way underpaid. No reason to have military on food
stamps.It is demeaning and insulting. I thought Bush would fix it, but he
hasn't at all. Shame on him. Where is his sense of concern for our military?
How about taking some of that tax cut and giving it to our enlisted troops?.
They will spend it right away and help the economy more than giving it to the
rich. Rudyard Kipling was right. (sheesh)


..
Arthur Kramer
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"ArtKramr" wrote

How about taking some of that tax cut and giving it to our enlisted troops?.

The best way to solve this problem, is to make all military pay exempt
from taxes. It makes no sense to tax taxes.

Subject: Who plays golf at Nellis?
From: "S. Sampson"
Date: 7/23/03 7:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

"ArtKramr" wrote

How about taking some of that tax cut and giving it to our enlisted
troops?.

The best way to solve this problem, is to make all military pay exempt
from taxes. It makes no sense to tax taxes.




Agreed. How about that plus pay raises?. After all what is a soldiers life
worth? In Flanders field the poppies blow, between the crosses row on row.

Arthur Kramer
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"ArtKramr" wrote

Agreed. How about that plus pay raises?. After all what is a soldiers life
worth? In Flanders field the poppies blow, between the crosses row on row.

Sure, why not! After all, we're only 6 trillion in debt.

I would hold 1000 nukes (WMD), and de-commission the rest, and convert
the money into combat pay.

"S. Sampson" wrote in message


I would hold 1000 nukes (WMD), and de-commission the rest, and convert
the money into combat pay.

What money? I suspect you'd find that it actually costs money to
decommission the weapons, so the initial result of is actually an increased
cost to reduce the number of weapons.

As it is, the nuke inventory may decline to around 1700-2200 weapons under
the Moscow Treaty. That's the number allowed to be active. More may be kept
inactive, which may well be cheaper than actually dismantling them in the
near term.

--
Tom Schoene Replace "invalid" with "net" to e-mail
"If brave men and women never died, there would be nothing
special about bravery." -- Andy Rooney (attributed)

(BUFDRVR) wrote in
:

There is no comparison of enlisted folks to officers, even today. I
probably wouldn't trust anyone below (E-6) to make a decision on
their own, where it involved multi-millions, or 40 peoples lives.

How about 5? I trusted my life and that of my crew to anywhere between
2 and 10 E-3 through E-5's nearly every sortie, and after getting to
know these young men (and a few women) I never had a worry in the
world. In fact, I literally never worried about the condition of my
jet, *ever*!

As a wrench turning E-5 myself, I would like to say I appreciate your kind
words, BUF. I'll say there are definitely some 3-5 types who I feel can be
given a lot of trust to. I've also seen 6-8 types - and even some O's - who
I wouldn't trust much further than I can throw them when it comes to my own
safety. Point is, I think each individual should be treated individually -
not necessarily by what kind of rank they have.

Point is, I think each individual should be treated individually -
not necessarily by what kind of rank they have.


Absolutely true.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

There is no comparison of enlisted folks to officers, even today. I
probably wouldn't trust anyone below (E-6) to make a decision on
their own, where it involved multi-millions, or 40 peoples lives. I know
there are exceptions, but speaking generally, I think lower enlisted grades
should have Squadron level endorsement on marriage benefits being paid.


Have you ever been in the military? What makes an O-1, 2 or 3 anymore qualified
to make such judgements than an E-4 or E-5? The college? There are officers
with no college and there are enlisteds with PhDs. Check out the regs. An E-4
is capable of doing his job with a minimal ammount of supervision. An E-5 can
be a 7 level. In other words he can sign off on safety of flight items.

Set your predjudices aside a recognize that officers are no better men than
enlisteds. The guys that fix the aircraft are E-1 - E6. Most of the wrench
benders are E-2 through E-5 and they make decisions every single day. The
multimillion dollar systems from aircraft to ICBMS are maintained extremely
well by the people you have insulted.

The other branches are similar in that regard.

Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired

snip

There are officers
with no college

snip

I agree with everything you stated except the above (at least in Todays
military) is not possible. Bachelors degree required as a minimum.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"