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PowerFlarm offers new Version, PowerFlarm Fusion Includes Many newstandard Features!



 
 
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  #71  
Old November 21st 20, 12:30 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
George Haeh
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Default PowerFlarm offers new Version, PowerFlarm Fusion Includes Manynewstandard Features!

There's talk the early 27s didn't have significant carbon fiber in the nose cone.

That the PowerFLARM range analysis with a single glareshield antenna in my later build 27 shows poor coverage convinces me there's carbon fiber below. Visual examination shows lots of black stuff in the nose cone.
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  #72  
Old November 21st 20, 01:07 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
kinsell
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Posts: 546
Default PowerFlarm offers new Version, PowerFlarm Fusion Includes Manynewstandard Features!

On 11/20/20 3:39 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
George Haeh wrote on 11/20/2020 1:42 PM:
"I think my experience would apply to almost any Schleicher glider -
they all use essentially
the same fuselage, starting with the ASW24, which do not have carbon
in the nose."

The fuselage mold may be the same, but the layup in newer gliders is
carbon fiber.

I found a major improvement in range when I moved from a single
antenna over the glareshield to dual antennas on the canopy sides of
my ASW-27.

I did Range Analysis on six installations and documented the results
in the 2019 Free Flight. Look for Antenna Placement:

http://sac.ca/index.php/en/free-flig...ight-vol-libre


Are you certain the ASW27 has carbon fiber in the nose (the area besides
the pilot's feet)? It was designed at the same time as the ASH26E, which
doesn't have any carbon in that area. Same question for the ASW28,
ASG29, etc - I'm wondering when/if the addition of carbon in the nose
began.



The '31Mi is all carbon up in the nose.
  #73  
Old November 21st 20, 01:18 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
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Default PowerFlarm offers new Version, PowerFlarm Fusion Includes Manynewstandard Features!

George Haeh wrote on 11/20/2020 3:30 PM:
There's talk the early 27s didn't have significant carbon fiber in the nose cone.

That the PowerFLARM range analysis with a single glareshield antenna in my later build 27 shows poor coverage convinces me there's carbon fiber below. Visual examination shows lots of black stuff in the nose cone.

My friend with an ASW27A agrees, saying he has fiberglass, but the ASW27B, 28, and 29 all have
carbon in the nose. Too bad - the nose mounting was easy and effective. My next glider is
supposed to have a Flarm antenna in the fin, so I'm hoping that's all it will need. So, with
Flarm, transponder, and com antennas in the tail, it might be a very busy electromagnetic
nightmare!

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
  #74  
Old November 21st 20, 01:18 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
waremark
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Posts: 377
Default PowerFlarm offers new Version, PowerFlarm Fusion Includes Manynewstandard Features!

On Friday, 20 November 2020 at 19:51:05 UTC, wrote:
To the best of my knowledge it now works - but I don't actually know whether it does.
Take a recent Flarm flight log and upload it to the Flarm analyzer. It will show you the results for the A and the B antenna...

http://flarm.com/support/tools-softw...ange-analyzer/


I normally use igc files from my LX9000 which don't work with that tool. The LX range analyser does not give me the individual antenna information. I just tried a file from my PF which did have readings from the two antennae - good news. Less good was that one seemed to have very poor range - I don't know which antenna that was. However, the CARP file analyser (Continuous Analyzer of Radio Performance - new to me, apparently accumulates range data from multiple flights) did not appear to find any data, and I had to use the 'Classic Analyser' although my firmware version was 6.82 and the website said CARP should work from 6.80 - so I was only seeing data from one flight, whereas what I got from the LX9000 appeared to be from multiple flights and just showed decent all round reception (minimum of 10k all round).
  #75  
Old November 21st 20, 02:57 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Andrzej Kobus
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Default PowerFlarm offers new Version, PowerFlarm Fusion Includes Manynewstandard Features!

On Friday, November 20, 2020 at 12:31:44 PM UTC-5, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Moshe Braner wrote on 11/19/2020 2:12 PM:
On 11/19/2020 1:21 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:


That looks to me like you can buy a license to activate the "B" antenna. Isn't that like
buying a license to active the passenger side seat belt in a car? Or the rear brakes?


Maybe if you pay extra they'll sell you the feature where it keeps on working after the
firmware "expires"? (As long as the data packets are still compatible..)

Dan: We have no choice about seat belts and brakes, which are mandated by law. Do you want to
go there with PowerFlarm? :^(

Dan: Buying a license for an optional feature (also known as "buying an optional feature") is
like buying the "primo" optional interior for your new car, except you can do it anytime,
even years after the purchase, unlike that fancy interior. Would you rather they included
everything that is now optional, and charged you for it, instead letting you pay for only
what you need?


I also agree with Dan that having to buy a license to activate the "B" antenna is ridiculous.
Yes it's an optional feature, but it shouldn't be. They've already developed this feature and
it's built into the device. And it is important for the safety benefit. That's different from
some of the other optional features like IGC-certified logging, which are separate from the
collision avoidance purpose, and they can make those who want that feature pay extra while
keeping the price lower (?) for the rest.

The B antenna is not required for safety in my glider. My ASH26E has two antennas in the nose
(Flarm and ADSB), producing excellent range in most directions, and sufficient range to the
rear for collision avoidance. I tried a B antenna on the belly, and it did improve the range at
which I could detect other Flarm units, especially below. Since the unit already had sufficient
range in all directions, the B antenna did not improve it's collision avoidance ability, and I
removed it after 10 or so flights.

I think my experience would apply to almost any Schleicher glider - they all use essentially
the same fuselage, starting with the ASW24, which do not have carbon in the nose. That's a lot
of gliders.
--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1


Eric, you wish what you wrote to be a fact, but in reality you can not have 100% in a glider that uses carbon and has only one antenna. I used to own ASH-26E with Flarm and from experience know there are blind spots. One flight in a competition gaggle would prove it for you. You will not be seen by others all the time and you will not see others all the time on your Flarm if you and they have only 1 antenna.
  #76  
Old November 21st 20, 03:03 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dave Nadler
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Posts: 1,610
Default PowerFlarm offers new Version, PowerFlarm Fusion Includes Manynewstandard Features!

On 11/20/2020 7:18 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
My next glider is supposed to have a Flarm antenna in the fin...


Make sure they install the antenna for USA frequency!
Iff that glider ever gets built...
  #77  
Old November 21st 20, 04:15 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Ron Gleason
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Posts: 483
Default PowerFlarm offers new Version, PowerFlarm Fusion Includes Manynewstandard Features!

On Friday, 20 November 2020 at 19:03:47 UTC-7, wrote:
On 11/20/2020 7:18 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
My next glider is supposed to have a Flarm antenna in the fin...


Make sure they install the antenna for USA frequency!
Iff that glider ever gets built...

Ouch
  #78  
Old November 21st 20, 02:40 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
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Posts: 1,939
Default PowerFlarm offers new Version, PowerFlarm Fusion Includes Manynewstandard Features!

Dave Nadler wrote on 11/20/2020 6:03 PM:
On 11/20/2020 7:18 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
My next glider is supposed to have a Flarm antenna in the fin...


Make sure they install the antenna for USA frequency!
Iff that glider ever gets built...


Excellent point - something that could be overlooked. I'll remind the dealer.

Two are nearing completion; two others entered production a few weeks ago. Covid restrictions
in Poland (and elsewhere in the supply chain) have delayed things by many months.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
  #79  
Old November 21st 20, 02:54 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
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Posts: 1,939
Default PowerFlarm offers new Version, PowerFlarm Fusion Includes Manynewstandard Features!

Andrzej Kobus wrote on 11/20/2020 5:57 PM:
On Friday, November 20, 2020 at 12:31:44 PM UTC-5, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Moshe Braner wrote on 11/19/2020 2:12 PM:
On 11/19/2020 1:21 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:


That looks to me like you can buy a license to activate the "B" antenna. Isn't that like



I also agree with Dan that having to buy a license to activate the "B" antenna is ridiculous.
Yes it's an optional feature, but it shouldn't be. They've already developed this feature and
it's built into the device. And it is important for the safety benefit. That's different from
some of the other optional features like IGC-certified logging, which are separate from the
collision avoidance purpose, and they can make those who want that feature pay extra while
keeping the price lower (?) for the rest.

The B antenna is not required for safety in my glider. My ASH26E has two antennas in the nose
(Flarm and ADSB), producing excellent range in most directions, and sufficient range to the
rear for collision avoidance. I tried a B antenna on the belly, and it did improve the range at
which I could detect other Flarm units, especially below. Since the unit already had sufficient
range in all directions, the B antenna did not improve it's collision avoidance ability, and I
removed it after 10 or so flights.

I think my experience would apply to almost any Schleicher glider - they all use essentially
the same fuselage, starting with the ASW24, which do not have carbon in the nose. That's a lot
of gliders.
--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1


Eric, you wish what you wrote to be a fact, but in reality you can not have 100% in a glider that uses carbon and has only one antenna. I used to own ASH-26E with Flarm and from experience know there are blind spots. One flight in a competition gaggle would prove it for you. You will not be seen by others all the time and you will not see others all the time on your Flarm if you and they have only 1 antenna.

The gaggles I've flown in did not expose those problems, perhaps because they have not been as
dense as the worst contest gaggles sometimes are. Did your 26E have the antennas mounted in the
nose? Where was the worst blind spot?

In general, I would expect the signal strength from nearby gliders (+/- 500'vertically, 1000'
horizontally) in a gaggle to overwhelm all but the very worst antenna placement.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
  #80  
Old November 21st 20, 04:38 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Moshe Braner
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Posts: 114
Default PowerFlarm offers new Version, PowerFlarm Fusion Includes Manynewstandard Features!

On 11/21/2020 8:54 AM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
...

In general, I would expect the signal strength from nearby gliders (+/-
500'vertically, 1000' horizontally) in a gaggle to overwhelm all but the
very worst antenna placement.


Good point. Receivers can be very sensitive. Years ago GPS receivers
were finicky, had to put them outdoors for 15 minutes to get a fix, etc.
Nowadays those in recent model cellphones work just fine on the
passenger seat of a metal-body car. Note that the GPS satellites are
generally low on the horizon. And very far away. Presumably the
signals come in through windows and bounce around inside the car. No
idea if the FLARM receivers are comparably sensitive. Nor whether
carbon fiber reflects radio waves as well as sheet metal does.
 




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