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Two MOH Winners say Bush Didn't Serve



 
 
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  #41  
Old June 9th 04, 10:27 AM
Cub Driver
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The issue is that he did not fulfil his obligation.
He clearly did not.


He clearly did. www.warbirdforum.com/bushf102.htm

What kind of pathological paranoia causes people to take these
positions?

(I notice it largely comes from people I've already kill-filed, so
evidently it has been apparent for some little time.)


all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum
www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! www.vivabush.org
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  #42  
Old June 9th 04, 10:49 AM
WalterM140
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Where is Bush's certificate of Honorable Discharge?

I believe I've seen a copy on one posted on the Internet some time ago. The
real question is how much influence was exerted by his father the Congressman
to
get it issued. The answer to that little question seems to be clouded by
smoke
and mirrors, as our Repug friends are wont to say. Smoke usually coming from
fire, I daresay that his Congressional hand is in it somewhere although I
doubt
that, what with two presidents in the family, the public will ever learn the
truth about it.

George Z.


I was wrong. Officers don't get certificates of "Honorable Discharge". I have
a DD-214 that characterizes my service as honorable. My commission is still in
effect.

I do have two certificates of honorable discharge from when I was enlisted.
They came (as I recall) with little flag lapel pins.

Bush's record is incomplete. CBS has an article that says there are still
holes in it; as far as I -know-, no one has come forward in the Alabama
national guard to collect Gary Trudeau's $10,000 for saying they remember Bush.
However, the link on Doonesbury.com to that "contest" says that it has ended,
buit gives no results.

Bush's CO in Alabama -is- clearly on the record as saying that Bush never
reported to him.

Here is a link to where Bush was counseled that failure to perform adequately
in the Guard could result in involuntary call to active duty.

http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/doc23.gif

Walt

Walt
  #43  
Old June 9th 04, 10:59 AM
WalterM140
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Well, it turns out that no one collected Trudeau's $10,000.

CASE CLOSED: Four weeks ago, "Doonesbury" creator Garry Trudeau announced in
his cartoon strip the "Bush Guard Service" contest: "We're offering $10,000
cash to any witness who can definitively corroborate Mr. Bush's claim" that
three decades before he became President, he served in the Alabama National
Guard. "So if you served with Mr. Bush - even if only in the officers' club -
we want to hear from you right now! Why? So we can put this trash story to rest
and get back to the real issues." Well, it turns out that no credible witness
has come forward to claim the prize, so this week Trudeau mailed a personal
check for $10,000 to the USO. "We're extremely grateful for his generosity,"
USO Vice President John Hansen told me yesterday. But has Trudeau's check
cleared? "Oh, I think he's good for it."

-- Lloyd Grove in the New York Daily News 3/19/04

Walt

  #44  
Old June 9th 04, 12:06 PM
WalterM140
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Posts: n/a
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The issue is that he did not fulfil his obligation.
He clearly did not.


He clearly did. www.warbirdforum.com/bushf102.htm

What kind of pathological paranoia causes people to take these
positions?


The facts do. Not one person came forward to collect Trudeau's $10,000 as
having seen Bush in Alabama.

His certificate of service, while characterizing the nature of service as being
honorable, shows he only served 5 years, 4 months and 5 days of a six year
commitment.

What -you- need to show is that Bush did not receive favorable treatment. But
you can't show that, because the Republican smear/cover-up campaign is is full
swing.

You'd think the Bush partisans would have enough sense to just let this drop.

Senator Kerry is a highly decorated WIA veteran of the Viet Nam war, who
volunteered both for the war and for hazardous duty.

The best case scenario for Bush is that he just slid by and did the absolute
-minimum- possible to maintain his commitment -- which he clearly took in order
to avoid the draft.

Walt
  #45  
Old June 9th 04, 01:20 PM
Steven P. McNicoll
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"WalterM140" wrote in message
...

Bush's record is incomplete. CBS has an article that says there are still
holes in it; as far as I -know-, no one has come forward in the Alabama
national guard to collect Gary Trudeau's $10,000 for saying they
remember Bush.


At least one member of that unit did come forward and stated he remembers
Bush performing office work.


  #46  
Old June 9th 04, 01:23 PM
Steven P. McNicoll
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"WalterM140" wrote in message
...

Well, it turns out that no one collected Trudeau's $10,000.


No one was ever going to collect it.



CASE CLOSED: Four weeks ago, "Doonesbury" creator Garry Trudeau announced

in
his cartoon strip the "Bush Guard Service" contest: "We're offering

$10,000
cash to any witness who can definitively corroborate Mr. Bush's claim"

that
three decades before he became President, he served in the Alabama

National
Guard. "So if you served with Mr. Bush - even if only in the officers'

club -
we want to hear from you right now! Why? So we can put this trash story to

rest
and get back to the real issues." Well, it turns out that no credible

witness
has come forward to claim the prize, so this week Trudeau mailed a

personal
check for $10,000 to the USO. "We're extremely grateful for his

generosity,"
USO Vice President John Hansen told me yesterday. But has Trudeau's check
cleared? "Oh, I think he's good for it."

-- Lloyd Grove in the New York Daily News 3/19/04


At least one member of that unit did come forward and stated he remembered
Bush performing office work.


  #47  
Old June 9th 04, 03:01 PM
George Z. Bush
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

WalterM140 wrote:

Where is Bush's certificate of Honorable Discharge?


I believe I've seen a copy on one posted on the Internet some time ago. The
real question is how much influence was exerted by his father the Congressman
to
get it issued. The answer to that little question seems to be clouded by
smoke
and mirrors, as our Repug friends are wont to say. Smoke usually coming from
fire, I daresay that his Congressional hand is in it somewhere although I
doubt
that, what with two presidents in the family, the public will ever learn the
truth about it.

George Z.


I was wrong. Officers don't get certificates of "Honorable Discharge". I
have a DD-214 that characterizes my service as honorable.


You're right, of course, and I'm embarrassed to admit that I made the same
mistake you did. All I got was a 214 and a special order announcing or
authorizing (I've forgotten the term used) my retirement.

George Z.


  #48  
Old June 9th 04, 03:32 PM
Steven P. McNicoll
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"WalterM140" wrote in message
...

The facts do.


The facts indicate Bush fulfilled his service commitment.



Not one person came forward to collect Trudeau's $10,000 as
having seen Bush in Alabama.


At least one did.


  #49  
Old June 9th 04, 03:42 PM
Steven P. McNicoll
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"WalterM140" wrote in message
...

Bush's record is incomplete. CBS has an article that says there are still
holes in it; as far as I -know-, no one has come forward in the Alabama
national guard to collect Gary Trudeau's $10,000 for saying they
remember Bush.


http://makeashorterlink.com/?F22924488


Former Guardsman: Bush served with me in Alabama

By the Associated Press

A retired Alabama Air National Guard officer said Friday that he remembers
George Bush showing up for duty in Alabama in 1972, reading safety magazines
and flight manuals in an office as he performed his weekend obligations.
"I saw him each drill period," retired Lt. Col. John "Bill" Calhoun said in
a telephone interview with The Associated Press from Daytona Beach, Fla.,
where he is preparing to watch this weekend's big NASCAR race.

"He was very aggressive about doing his duty there. He never complained
about it. ... He was very dedicated to what he was doing in the Guard. He
showed up on time and he left at the end of the day."

Calhoun, whose name was supplied to the AP by a Republican close to Bush, is
the first member of the 187th Tactical Reconnaissance Group to recall Bush
distinctly at the Alabama base in the period of 1972-1973. He was the unit's
flight safety officer.

The 69-year-old president of an Atlanta insulation company said Bush showed
up for work at Dannelly Air National Guard Base for drills on at least six
occasions. Bush and Calhoun had both been trained as fighter pilots, and
Calhoun said the two would swap "war stories" and even eat lunch together on
base.

Calhoun is named in 187th unit rosters obtained by the AP as serving under
the deputy commander of operations plans. Bush was in Alabama on non-flying
status.

"He sat in my office most of the time - he would read," Calhoun said. "He
had your training manuals from your aircraft he was flying. He'd study those
some. He'd read safety magazines, which is a common thing for pilots."

Democrats have asked for proof that Bush, then a 1st lieutenant with the
Texas Air National Guard, turned up for duty in Alabama, where Bush had
asked to be assigned while he worked on the U.S. Senate campaign of family
friend Winton "Red" Blount.

Pay and medical records released by the White House this week failed to
quash allegations that Bush shirked his Guard responsibilities. (Related
story: Bush's driving records disclosed)

The 187th's former commander, retired Brig. Gen. William Turnipseed, has
said he doesn't remember Bush ever turning up on base, and more than a dozen
members of the 800-person unit, including its commander, told The Associated
Press this week they have no recollection of Bush. Critics have made much of
the fact that the White House has failed to produce anyone who could
remember seeing Bush there.

Calhoun said he contacted Texas GOP leaders with his story in 2000 when the
issue was raised just before the November general election.

"I got on the phone and got information and called Austin, Texas, and talked
to the Republican campaign. They said I was talking to the campaign
manager," he said. "I told him my story and said I would be glad to provide
information to that effect. At that time they said ... The story is not
true. And we don't think it's got enough weight to stay out as a story.' And
they said, 'But if it does we'll call you back.' And I never heard from them
again."

Last week as the issue raged again, Calhoun sent an e-mail to the White
House offering to tell his story. "I got a response back, one of those
automatic responses," he said. It wasn't until his wife contacted Georgia
GOP officials that Calhoun's name surfaced.

White House press secretary Scott McClellan said Friday that the White House
was not making any effort to try to locate people who might have served with
Bush. He also accused reporters of trying to raise new lines of questioning,
beyond whether Bush served in Alabama.

Critics have suggested that Bush used his family connections to get the safe
Guard assignment ahead of thousands of others. But Calhoun said Bush never
mentioned his congressman father while they sat together at Dannelly.

"I knew he was working in the senatorial campaign, and I asked him if he was
going to be a politician," said Calhoun, who is a staunch Republican. "And
he said, 'I don't know. Probably.'"

Calhoun has not made any donations to Bush this election season or during
the 2000 season, according to campaign finance records.



  #50  
Old June 9th 04, 03:44 PM
Steven P. McNicoll
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"WalterM140" wrote in message
...

Well, it turns out that no one collected Trudeau's $10,000.

CASE CLOSED: Four weeks ago, "Doonesbury" creator Garry Trudeau announced

in
his cartoon strip the "Bush Guard Service" contest: "We're offering

$10,000
cash to any witness who can definitively corroborate Mr. Bush's claim"

that
three decades before he became President, he served in the Alabama

National
Guard. "So if you served with Mr. Bush - even if only in the officers'

club -
we want to hear from you right now! Why? So we can put this trash story to

rest
and get back to the real issues." Well, it turns out that no credible

witness
has come forward to claim the prize, so this week Trudeau mailed a

personal
check for $10,000 to the USO. "We're extremely grateful for his

generosity,"
USO Vice President John Hansen told me yesterday. But has Trudeau's check
cleared? "Oh, I think he's good for it."

-- Lloyd Grove in the New York Daily News 3/19/04


Do you have any idea why Trudeau reneged?


http://makeashorterlink.com/?F22924488


Former Guardsman: Bush served with me in Alabama

By the Associated Press

A retired Alabama Air National Guard officer said Friday that he remembers
George Bush showing up for duty in Alabama in 1972, reading safety magazines
and flight manuals in an office as he performed his weekend obligations.
"I saw him each drill period," retired Lt. Col. John "Bill" Calhoun said in
a telephone interview with The Associated Press from Daytona Beach, Fla.,
where he is preparing to watch this weekend's big NASCAR race.

"He was very aggressive about doing his duty there. He never complained
about it. ... He was very dedicated to what he was doing in the Guard. He
showed up on time and he left at the end of the day."

Calhoun, whose name was supplied to the AP by a Republican close to Bush, is
the first member of the 187th Tactical Reconnaissance Group to recall Bush
distinctly at the Alabama base in the period of 1972-1973. He was the unit's
flight safety officer.

The 69-year-old president of an Atlanta insulation company said Bush showed
up for work at Dannelly Air National Guard Base for drills on at least six
occasions. Bush and Calhoun had both been trained as fighter pilots, and
Calhoun said the two would swap "war stories" and even eat lunch together on
base.

Calhoun is named in 187th unit rosters obtained by the AP as serving under
the deputy commander of operations plans. Bush was in Alabama on non-flying
status.

"He sat in my office most of the time - he would read," Calhoun said. "He
had your training manuals from your aircraft he was flying. He'd study those
some. He'd read safety magazines, which is a common thing for pilots."

Democrats have asked for proof that Bush, then a 1st lieutenant with the
Texas Air National Guard, turned up for duty in Alabama, where Bush had
asked to be assigned while he worked on the U.S. Senate campaign of family
friend Winton "Red" Blount.

Pay and medical records released by the White House this week failed to
quash allegations that Bush shirked his Guard responsibilities. (Related
story: Bush's driving records disclosed)

The 187th's former commander, retired Brig. Gen. William Turnipseed, has
said he doesn't remember Bush ever turning up on base, and more than a dozen
members of the 800-person unit, including its commander, told The Associated
Press this week they have no recollection of Bush. Critics have made much of
the fact that the White House has failed to produce anyone who could
remember seeing Bush there.

Calhoun said he contacted Texas GOP leaders with his story in 2000 when the
issue was raised just before the November general election.

"I got on the phone and got information and called Austin, Texas, and talked
to the Republican campaign. They said I was talking to the campaign
manager," he said. "I told him my story and said I would be glad to provide
information to that effect. At that time they said ... The story is not
true. And we don't think it's got enough weight to stay out as a story.' And
they said, 'But if it does we'll call you back.' And I never heard from them
again."

Last week as the issue raged again, Calhoun sent an e-mail to the White
House offering to tell his story. "I got a response back, one of those
automatic responses," he said. It wasn't until his wife contacted Georgia
GOP officials that Calhoun's name surfaced.

White House press secretary Scott McClellan said Friday that the White House
was not making any effort to try to locate people who might have served with
Bush. He also accused reporters of trying to raise new lines of questioning,
beyond whether Bush served in Alabama.

Critics have suggested that Bush used his family connections to get the safe
Guard assignment ahead of thousands of others. But Calhoun said Bush never
mentioned his congressman father while they sat together at Dannelly.

"I knew he was working in the senatorial campaign, and I asked him if he was
going to be a politician," said Calhoun, who is a staunch Republican. "And
he said, 'I don't know. Probably.'"

Calhoun has not made any donations to Bush this election season or during
the 2000 season, according to campaign finance records.



 




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