If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
#2
|
|||
|
|||
At least, and by chance not by France
|
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Only cos they did what they always do - join up, get the idea and then ****
of and make their own. Granted Rafale is in (limited) service, but its a MMI nightmare! "NEMO ME IMPUNE" wrote in message ... At least, and by chance not by France |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
"Ian Craig" a écrit dans le message de ... Only cos they did what they always do - join up, get the idea and then **** of and make their own. Granted Rafale is in (limited) service, but its a MMI nightmare! "NEMO ME IMPUNE" wrote in message ... At least, and by chance not by France Another gratuitous statement.... "Always"? What about the Concorde, the Jaguar, the Alphajet, the Mig AT, the Tiger and the entire Eurocopter line-up? What about Airbus? What about EADS? What about the ATR family? What about SNECMA working with GE to produce the CFM-56, one of the most successful family of jet engine ever? What about all these successful partnerships and some I may have forgotten?... See on http://www.eurofighter.starstreak.ne...r/history.html the reasons of France's withdrawal from the project : "The F/EFA project called for a STOL (Short Take Off and Landing) twin engine air superiority fighter optimised for Beyond Visual Range (BVR) combat but retaining a ground attack capability. France however wanted a small lightweight system which may operate from its aircraft carriers. In addition they wanted a guaranteed 50% workshare and overall control of the project, these were of course unacceptable terms to Britain and Germany". As for the Rafale being a man to machine interface (I hope I get it right) nightmare, on which facts do you base your statement? It might be right (though I have never heard nor read anything stating such a thing) but I'd sure like to know your sources. I've seen the Rafale prototype in flight at the 89 Paris air show, three years after the program was officialy launched (and it had already flown over 400 times), when all the EFA stand had to offer to visitors was posters and stickers. Not so bad for a country on its own, isn'it? The only actual part in your post is about the Rafale being in limited servi ce, with about ten commissioned planes. In case you don't know, we don't exactly have the US DoD budget. Why don't you send us $100 000 000 so that we could quicker buy a couple more? ArVa |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
"ArVa" wrote in message ... "Ian Craig" a écrit dans le message de ... Only cos they did what they always do - join up, get the idea and then **** of and make their own. Granted Rafale is in (limited) service, but its a MMI nightmare! "NEMO ME IMPUNE" wrote in message ... At least, and by chance not by France Another gratuitous statement.... "Always"? What about the Concorde, the Jaguar, the Alphajet, the Mig AT, the Tiger and the entire Eurocopter line-up? What about Airbus? What about EADS? What about the ATR family? What about SNECMA working with GE to produce the CFM-56, one of the most successful family of jet engine ever? What about all these successful partnerships and some I may have forgotten?... You'd have got me if you hadn'#t mentioned Jaguar and Alphjet, and probably MIG AT. They've not been that successful? The others have. See on http://www.eurofighter.starstreak.ne...r/history.html the reasons of France's withdrawal from the project : "The F/EFA project called for a STOL (Short Take Off and Landing) twin engine air superiority fighter optimised for Beyond Visual Range (BVR) combat but retaining a ground attack capability. France however wanted a small lightweight system which may operate from its aircraft carriers. In addition they wanted a guaranteed 50% workshare and overall control of the project, these were of course unacceptable terms to Britain and Germany". As for the Rafale being a man to machine interface (I hope I get it right) nightmare, on which facts do you base your statement? It might be right (though I have never heard nor read anything stating such a thing) but I'd sure like to know your sources. I've seen the Rafale prototype in flight at the 89 Paris air show, three years after the program was officialy launched (and it had already flown over 400 times), when all the EFA stand had to offer to visitors was posters and stickers. Not so bad for a country on its own, isn'it? The only actual part in your post is about the Rafale being in limited servi ce, with about ten commissioned planes. In case you don't know, we don't exactly have the US DoD budget. Why don't you send us $100 000 000 so that we could quicker buy a couple more? ArVa |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
"Ian Craig" a écrit dans le message de
... You'd have got me if you hadn'#t mentioned Jaguar and Alphjet, and probably MIG AT. They've not been that successful? The others have. To paraphrase a former US president, it depends how you define success... The Jaguar is in service in France, the United Kingdom, Ecuador, Nigeria, India and Oman. The alphajet is in service in France, Germany, Belgium, Cameroon, Egypt, Ivory Coast, Morocco, Nigeria, Portugal, Togo and Quatar. And both still fly some 25 years later (probably not for a very long time now concerning the jaguar). I agree the Mig AT is not a commercial success yet but the financial aspect is not the only one to take in consideration. I was refering to successful *partnerships*, as this is what you say the French can't achieve... ArVa |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Ian Craig wrote in message ... "ArVa" wrote in message ... Another gratuitous statement.... "Always"? What about the Concorde, the Jaguar, the Alphajet, the Mig AT, the Tiger and the entire Eurocopter line-up? What about Airbus? What about EADS? What about the ATR family? What about SNECMA working with GE to produce the CFM-56, one of the most successful family of jet engine ever? What about all these successful partnerships and some I may have forgotten?... You'd have got me if you hadn'#t mentioned Jaguar and Alphjet, and probably MIG AT. They've not been that successful? The others have. The SEPECAT Jaguar has been in service with both Frances' own air force and the RAF in the UK for a long time. I remember the name Alphajet, but not the aircraft. Cheers Graeme |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
In article ,
Ian Craig wrote: Granted Rafale is in (limited) service, but its a MMI nightmare! I think the autopilot interface seems like a pretty smart solution, is the rest worse designed? Something in particular you had in mind? -- Urban Fredriksson Military aviation: Swedish military aviation, the rec.aviation.military FAQ http://www.canit.se/%7Egriffon/aviation/ Weblog http://www.canit.se/%7Egriffon/aviation/avblog.html |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
From what I've learned (from aircrew who have seen/flown it) they hate it.
Its just too difficult to use for a single person. There was talk a while ago, that the French forces were seriously considering changing their orders to include a lot more twin seats? I vaguely remember they did actually order another batch? Eurofighter on the other hand, is by no means a perfect MMI, but is the closest to it in the forthcoming aircraft "Urban Fredriksson" wrote in message ... In article , Ian Craig wrote: Granted Rafale is in (limited) service, but its a MMI nightmare! I think the autopilot interface seems like a pretty smart solution, is the rest worse designed? Something in particular you had in mind? -- Urban Fredriksson Military aviation: Swedish military aviation, the rec.aviation.military FAQ http://www.canit.se/%7Egriffon/aviation/ Weblog http://www.canit.se/%7Egriffon/aviation/avblog.html |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
"Ian Craig" wrote in message ...
From what I've learned (from aircrew who have seen/flown it) they hate it. Its just too difficult to use for a single person. There was talk a while ago, that the French forces were seriously considering changing their orders to include a lot more twin seats? I vaguely remember they did actually order another batch? The Frech navy had first planned to only buy single-seaters, but they changed their order so now around half of the planes will be twin seats. Eurofighter on the other hand, is by no means a perfect MMI, but is the closest to it in the forthcoming aircraft "Urban Fredriksson" wrote in message ... In article , Ian Craig wrote: Granted Rafale is in (limited) service, but its a MMI nightmare! I think the autopilot interface seems like a pretty smart solution, is the rest worse designed? Something in particular you had in mind? -- Urban Fredriksson Military aviation: Swedish military aviation, the rec.aviation.military FAQ http://www.canit.se/%7Egriffon/aviation/ Weblog http://www.canit.se/%7Egriffon/aviation/avblog.html |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
FS: Piper PA18 / L-18C Flightmanual of German Luftwaffe | Maik | Aviation Marketplace | 0 | February 5th 04 12:32 PM |
German Stereotypes? | Keith Willshaw | Military Aviation | 3 | August 19th 03 04:05 AM |
Eurofighter Costs | John Cook | Military Aviation | 0 | July 9th 03 11:58 AM |