Fixes provided in routing for IFR flight plans - VFR waypoints okay?

As filed, flight plans are not flown. VFR might well be
just as simple as telling FSS VFR, Washington DC ,
Indianapolis, St. Louis, Destination Kansas City [the phrase
close enough for government work comes to mind.]
My actual plan would have many points for visual and radio
navigation.

An IFR plan is more detailed, but might only have a
departure airport, a SID and airway and a STAR and might
only have the airway, the feds will assign the SID and STAR
anyway.




"B A R R Y" wrote in message
. net...
| Mxsmanic wrote:
|
| The reason for asking is that I'm wondering if a VFR
flight plan with
| detailed routing that lists specific waypoints and fixes
can be easily
| converted to IFR without changing the routing, should
weather or other
| factors mandate a switch to IFR for the flight.
|
| You use IFR chart features on an IFR plan. Items like
VOR, NDB, and
| airports with instrument approaches are on IFR Charts.
Another
| document, known as the AF/D, or "Airport Facility
Directory", lists
| "preferred routes", which ATC will usually put you on
regardless of what
| you try to file.
|
| AF/D's are free he
| http://www.naco.faa.gov/index.asp?xml=naco/online/d_afd
|
| The "supplemental" section has the IFR routes 40 or so
pages in. You
| can also look up restricted airspace, noise abatement
corridors, etc...
| so you can keep the simulated Baron out of simulated
trouble and prevent
| ****ing off the simulated noise-sensitive residents
(simulated Skylune?
| G) you're flying over.
|
| It is possible to file a flight plan that uses both IFR
and VFR
| portions. This is known as a "composite" flight plan.
|
| I just thought of an "freebie" that might be of interest
to you in your
| sim realism, "Sporty's Study Buddy":
| http://sportys.com/faatest/study/ Sporty's Study
Buddy is more of a
| "learn the answers to the questions" system than a true
course, but it's
| free.
|
| I was also going to suggest an online ground school, like
King's:
| http://www.kingschools.com/, but I remember money is
tight. Since you
| have no interest in actually flying, and won't actually
have to pass a
| current written / oral exam, watching eBay for an outdated
ground school
| video course (cheap, of course! G) might be worthwhile.

"Jim Macklin" writes:

As filed, flight plans are not flown. VFR might well be
just as simple as telling FSS VFR, Washington DC ,
Indianapolis, St. Louis, Destination Kansas City [the phrase
close enough for government work comes to mind.]
My actual plan would have many points for visual and radio
navigation.

You're saying that you only put a few simple indications on the form
but you fly a more detailed plan?

I try to figure out lots of waypoints for VFR flights ... mainly
because there are so many restricted areas and Class-whatever
airspaces that I have to go through or avoid. If these didn't exist,
I could just look out the window in many cases; but since the chart
lines aren't marked on the real terrain, I try to have enough
waypoints figured out in advance so that I can be sure I'll be in the
right place at the right point from a regulatory standpoint.

An IFR plan is more detailed, but might only have a
departure airport, a SID and airway and a STAR and might
only have the airway, the feds will assign the SID and STAR
anyway.

Do you normally get arrival and departure procedures when you request
the IFR clearance, or does the arrival procedure not come up until you
are approaching your destination?

I've had a lot of trouble programming a FMS with procedures on the
fly, which is why I ask. I also have to try to dig up charts on the
spur of the moment, which is awkward.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

"Jim Macklin" writes:

As filed, flight plans are not flown. VFR might well be
just as simple as telling FSS VFR, Washington DC ,
Indianapolis, St. Louis, Destination Kansas City [the phrase
close enough for government work comes to mind.]
My actual plan would have many points for visual and radio
navigation.

You're saying that you only put a few simple indications on the form
but you fly a more detailed plan?

I try to figure out lots of waypoints for VFR flights ... mainly
because there are so many restricted areas and Class-whatever
airspaces that I have to go through or avoid. If these didn't exist,
I could just look out the window in many cases; but since the chart
lines aren't marked on the real terrain, I try to have enough
waypoints figured out in advance so that I can be sure I'll be in the
right place at the right point from a regulatory standpoint.

An IFR plan is more detailed, but might only have a
departure airport, a SID and airway and a STAR and might
only have the airway, the feds will assign the SID and STAR
anyway.

Do you normally get arrival and departure procedures when you request
the IFR clearance, or does the arrival procedure not come up until you
are approaching your destination?

I've had a lot of trouble programming a FMS with procedures on the
fly, which is why I ask. I also have to try to dig up charts on the
spur of the moment, which is awkward.

Not one word in this post saying he is playing a game called MSFS and not
flying a real plane

Replier be forewarned.... Especially the IFR newsgroup. Better yet,
ignore him, he is a troll.

Allen

"A Lieberma" wrote

Not one word in this post saying he is playing a game called MSFS and not
flying a real plane

Replier be forewarned.... Especially the IFR newsgroup. Better yet,
ignore him, he is a troll.

At least three new ones for my new file. I'm surprised, but not surprised, that
people still can't resist responding.

It is starting to get quiet, though. My blood pressure is staying down, too.
g
--
Jim in NC

In article ,
A Lieberma wrote:

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

"Jim Macklin" writes:

As filed, flight plans are not flown. VFR might well be
just as simple as telling FSS VFR, Washington DC ,
Indianapolis, St. Louis, Destination Kansas City [the phrase
close enough for government work comes to mind.]
My actual plan would have many points for visual and radio
navigation.

You're saying that you only put a few simple indications on the form
but you fly a more detailed plan?

I try to figure out lots of waypoints for VFR flights ... mainly
because there are so many restricted areas and Class-whatever
airspaces that I have to go through or avoid. If these didn't exist,
I could just look out the window in many cases; but since the chart
lines aren't marked on the real terrain, I try to have enough
waypoints figured out in advance so that I can be sure I'll be in the
right place at the right point from a regulatory standpoint.

An IFR plan is more detailed, but might only have a
departure airport, a SID and airway and a STAR and might
only have the airway, the feds will assign the SID and STAR
anyway.

Do you normally get arrival and departure procedures when you request
the IFR clearance, or does the arrival procedure not come up until you
are approaching your destination?

I've had a lot of trouble programming a FMS with procedures on the
fly, which is why I ask. I also have to try to dig up charts on the
spur of the moment, which is awkward.

Not one word in this post saying he is playing a game called MSFS and not
flying a real plane

So what? It's a reasonable question. What difference does it make what
his motivation is for asking it?

rg

In article ,
Mxsmanic wrote:

Do you normally get arrival and departure procedures when you request
the IFR clearance, or does the arrival procedure not come up until you
are approaching your destination?

The latter. (Obviously you get the departure clearance up front.)

ATC will often change your routing en-route also.

I've had a lot of trouble programming a FMS with procedures on the
fly, which is why I ask. I also have to try to dig up charts on the
spur of the moment, which is awkward.

Indeed. Real flying is not trivial.

rg

Ron Garret writes:

The latter. (Obviously you get the departure clearance up front.)

ATC will often change your routing en-route also.

I can see why flying with a copilot makes IFR easier.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

B A R R Y writes:

You use IFR chart features on an IFR plan.

Is there any place that has IFR charts online, like SkyVector does for
VFR charts?

AF/D's are free he
http://www.naco.faa.gov/index.asp?xml=naco/online/d_afd

I'm trying to download that now.

The "supplemental" section has the IFR routes 40 or so pages in. You
can also look up restricted airspace, noise abatement corridors, etc...
so you can keep the simulated Baron out of simulated trouble and prevent
****ing off the simulated noise-sensitive residents (simulated Skylune?
G) you're flying over.

I have simulated lawyers to protect me, but your point is well taken.

It is possible to file a flight plan that uses both IFR and VFR
portions. This is known as a "composite" flight plan.

Well, I can't even find the details on how to file a basic flight
plan, like what all the slash notations mean or guidelines for giving
the routing information or anything. I found the paper form itself
online, but no instructions.

I just thought of an "freebie" that might be of interest to you in your
sim realism, "Sporty's Study Buddy":
http://sportys.com/faatest/study/ Sporty's Study Buddy is more of a
"learn the answers to the questions" system than a true course, but it's
free.

I won't be taking an actual test any time soon, so I'm more interested
in detailed answers than in rote responses to test questions, but I'll
keep it in mind.

I was also going to suggest an online ground school, like King's:
http://www.kingschools.com/, but I remember money is tight.

Yes. Unfortunately, anything that isn't free right now is out of the
question.

Since you
have no interest in actually flying, and won't actually have to pass a
current written / oral exam, watching eBay for an outdated ground school
video course (cheap, of course! G) might be worthwhile.

What does ground school cover that isn't in the downloadable stuff
from the FAA? I remember my father taking a ground school course
endless years ago and a big fat book that came with it, but I don't
recall anything else.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Mxsmanic wrote:
B A R R Y writes:

You use IFR chart features on an IFR plan.

Is there any place that has IFR charts online, like SkyVector does for
VFR charts?

I don't know. I do have some expired IFR charts that can go along with
my previous offer expired VFR charts.


I have simulated lawyers to protect me, but your point is well taken.

I know some folks who wish divorce laywers were simulated. G


Well, I can't even find the details on how to file a basic flight
plan, like what all the slash notations mean or guidelines for giving
the routing information or anything. I found the paper form itself
online, but no instructions.

You're going to have to dig into the AIM for that, or a ground school
course.


What does ground school cover that isn't in the downloadable stuff
from the FAA?

It contains different explanations, which can make the material more
understandable.

Mxsmanic wrote:
I can't find any guidelines on the type of fixes or waypoints to be
included in the routing description of an IFR flight plan. I presume
you can use things like VORs and (?) airports, as well as airways and
anything indicated on IFR charts or procedures. But can you also use
VPxxx waypoints or other VFR fixes?


The VPxxx fixes generally are rejected by the flight plan handling
computer for IFR plans. You can insert lat/lons in (easier by
DUAT, convincing a FSS guy to do it is a bit tedious).

The reason for asking is that I'm wondering if a VFR flight plan with
detailed routing that lists specific waypoints and fixes can be easily
converted to IFR without changing the routing, should weather or other
factors mandate a switch to IFR for the flight.


You can put anything you want on a VFR route. It's not used for
anything. it just goes into the computer and stays there until
you don't show up at your destination and close the plan. They
start calling around looking for you and if that doesn't yield
anything, they might start looking at your route of flight filed.
But really, they look more at how much fuel you claimed you had
and where you could have possibly gone based on where you started
from.