If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
#1
|
|||
|
|||
KCNH departure procedure.
I was in Claremont NH (KCNH) today. The DP reads (per a recent FDC
notam; it's different from what's published): DEPARTURE PROCEDU RWY 11: CLIMB VIA HEADING 109 TO 2500 THEN CLIMBING RIGHT TURN DIRECT CNH NDB, CLIMB IN HOLDING TO 3000 BEFORE PROCEEDING ON COURSE. RWY 29: CLIMB VIA HEADING 289 TO 2500 THEN CLIMBING LEFT TURN DIRECT CNH NDB, CLIMB IN HOLDING TO 3000 BEFORE PROCEEDING ON COURSE. What's strange is the climb in the holding pattern. The airport elevation is 545. You climb about 2000 feet on runway heading, then turn around and head back to the airport while still climbing. I'm having a hard time envisioning any scenario where you would get back to CNH NDB (which is on the field) and not be at 3000 yet. Is there something I'm missing? |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
I think these procedures have to consider certain levels of wind depending
on altitude. It might be a strong headwind on takeoff, climbing at the minimum of 200 fpnm, then the stronger tailwind up higher after turning around. Stan "Roy Smith" wrote in message ... I was in Claremont NH (KCNH) today. The DP reads (per a recent FDC notam; it's different from what's published): DEPARTURE PROCEDU RWY 11: CLIMB VIA HEADING 109 TO 2500 THEN CLIMBING RIGHT TURN DIRECT CNH NDB, CLIMB IN HOLDING TO 3000 BEFORE PROCEEDING ON COURSE. RWY 29: CLIMB VIA HEADING 289 TO 2500 THEN CLIMBING LEFT TURN DIRECT CNH NDB, CLIMB IN HOLDING TO 3000 BEFORE PROCEEDING ON COURSE. What's strange is the climb in the holding pattern. The airport elevation is 545. You climb about 2000 feet on runway heading, then turn around and head back to the airport while still climbing. I'm having a hard time envisioning any scenario where you would get back to CNH NDB (which is on the field) and not be at 3000 yet. Is there something I'm missing? |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Roy Smith wrote:
I was in Claremont NH (KCNH) today. The DP reads (per a recent FDC notam; it's different from what's published): DEPARTURE PROCEDU RWY 11: CLIMB VIA HEADING 109 TO 2500 THEN CLIMBING RIGHT TURN DIRECT CNH NDB, CLIMB IN HOLDING TO 3000 BEFORE PROCEEDING ON COURSE. RWY 29: CLIMB VIA HEADING 289 TO 2500 THEN CLIMBING LEFT TURN DIRECT CNH NDB, CLIMB IN HOLDING TO 3000 BEFORE PROCEEDING ON COURSE. What's strange is the climb in the holding pattern. The airport elevation is 545. You climb about 2000 feet on runway heading, then turn around and head back to the airport while still climbing. I'm having a hard time envisioning any scenario where you would get back to CNH NDB (which is on the field) and not be at 3000 yet. Is there something I'm missing? This from the newly issued INSTRUMENT PROCEDURES HANDBOOK (FAA-H-8261-1) Page 2-32... VFR DEPARTURE There may be times when you need to fly an IFR flight plan due to the weather you will encounter at a later time (or if you simply wish to fly IFR to remain proficient), but the weather outside is clearly VFR. It may be that you can depart VFR, but you need to get an IFR clearance shortly after departing the airport. A VFR departure can be used as a tool that allows you to get off the ground without having to wait for a time slot in the IFR system, however, departing VFR with the intent of receiving and IFR clearance in the air can also present serious hazards worth considering. A VFR departure dramatically changes the takeoff responsibilities for you and for ATC. Upon receiving clearance for a VFR departure, you are cleared to depart; however, you must maintain separation between yourself and other traffic. You are responsible for maintaining terrain and obstruction clearance as well as remaining in VFR weather conditions. You cannot fly in IMC without first receiving your IFR clearance. Likewise, a VFR departure relieves ATC of these duties, and basically requires them only to provide you with safety alerts as workload permits. Maintain VFR until you have obtained your IFR clearance and have ATC approval to proceed on course in accordance with your clearance. If you accept this clearance and are below the minimum IFR altitude for operations in the area, you accept responsibiility for terrain/obstruction clearance until you reach that altitude. |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
"Roy Smith" wrote in message
... What's strange is the climb in the holding pattern. The airport elevation is 545. You climb about 2000 feet on runway heading, then turn around and head back to the airport while still climbing. I'm having a hard time envisioning any scenario where you would get back to CNH NDB (which is on the field) and not be at 3000 yet. Engine failure in a twin? At my home base, we usually get a "straight ahead to 2000, right turn to the [on-airport] NDB to join the hold at 3000". When practising asymmetric work, if we pull an engine approaching 2000 ft, we may not make 3000 by the time we're back at the NDB. Julian Scarfe |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Roy,
1) Thanks for the update. I hadn't realized that the DP had changed. 2) I'm based at KCNH, and had the same thought. Even with the old DP (no altitude requirement for turn), I never had to climb in the holding pattern. (Granted that I'm usually flying a C172 with two people and 180 HP up front.) I presume that this is a safeguard for an aircraft with an anemic climb rate (hot summer, heavily loaded, etc.). Even so, there would have to be a pretty strong headwind (if I did the math right, about 50kt head wind if you assume 80kt TAS and 500 fpm climb rate) to keep you close enough to the airport to require a climb in the holding pattern. Actually, upon closer inspection (anyone please correct me if I'm missing something), it seems that, due to the requirement that you fly the specified heading to 2500' before the turn, the climb rate doesn't really matter, just the headwind, no? Dan Roy Smith wrote: I was in Claremont NH (KCNH) today. The DP reads (per a recent FDC notam; it's different from what's published): DEPARTURE PROCEDU RWY 11: CLIMB VIA HEADING 109 TO 2500 THEN CLIMBING RIGHT TURN DIRECT CNH NDB, CLIMB IN HOLDING TO 3000 BEFORE PROCEEDING ON COURSE. RWY 29: CLIMB VIA HEADING 289 TO 2500 THEN CLIMBING LEFT TURN DIRECT CNH NDB, CLIMB IN HOLDING TO 3000 BEFORE PROCEEDING ON COURSE. What's strange is the climb in the holding pattern. The airport elevation is 545. You climb about 2000 feet on runway heading, then turn around and head back to the airport while still climbing. I'm having a hard time envisioning any scenario where you would get back to CNH NDB (which is on the field) and not be at 3000 yet. Is there something I'm missing? -- Remove "2PLANES" to reply. |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Roy Smith wrote:
I was in Claremont NH (KCNH) today. The DP reads (per a recent FDC notam; it's different from what's published): DEPARTURE PROCEDU RWY 11: CLIMB VIA HEADING 109 TO 2500 THEN CLIMBING RIGHT TURN DIRECT CNH NDB, CLIMB IN HOLDING TO 3000 BEFORE PROCEEDING ON COURSE. RWY 29: CLIMB VIA HEADING 289 TO 2500 THEN CLIMBING LEFT TURN DIRECT CNH NDB, CLIMB IN HOLDING TO 3000 BEFORE PROCEEDING ON COURSE. What's strange is the climb in the holding pattern. The airport elevation is 545. You climb about 2000 feet on runway heading, then turn around and head back to the airport while still climbing. I'm having a hard time envisioning any scenario where you would get back to CNH NDB (which is on the field) and not be at 3000 yet. Is there something I'm missing? A Cessna 150 at gross on a 100 degree day with 98% humidity. :-) Matt |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Notes on NACO Obstacle Departure Procedures | John Clonts | Instrument Flight Rules | 1 | July 15th 04 10:20 PM |
Procedure Turn | Bravo8500 | Instrument Flight Rules | 65 | April 22nd 04 03:27 AM |
Interesting Departure Procedu MRB Trixy Two | Richard Kaplan | Instrument Flight Rules | 26 | February 18th 04 11:42 PM |
Requirement to fly departure procedures | [email protected] | Instrument Flight Rules | 77 | October 15th 03 06:39 PM |
Instrument Approaches and procedure turns.... | Cecil E. Chapman | Instrument Flight Rules | 58 | September 18th 03 10:40 PM |