Mandatory Radios

On 2/5/2010 6:02 PM, lanebush wrote:
On Feb 5, 5:31 pm, Uncle wrote:
On Feb 5, 12:39 pm, wrote:





On Feb 5, 11:34 am, Pat wrote:

Yep.

If you have a trim tab, remember: "elevator disconnected - use trim
normally. elevator frozen - use trim backwards."
I haven't thought of a good mnemonic for this, however.

If you don't have a trim tab, never mind.

-Pat

The pilot selected full nose down trim, in response to his limited pitch control.

This is off-topic, but... he did the exact opposite of what should
have been done, didn't he?

Bart

trim TAB, not to be confused with spring or bungee trim?

Brad- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Absolutely. Spring or Bungee will do NOTHING if the stick is stuck.
Trim tab will act as a tiny elevator working OPPOSITE from the trim
function if the stick is stuck. The Twin Astir runs out of elevator in
a steep turn with max pilots weight. You can get significantly more
up elevator by pushing the trim FORWARD.

Getting back on topic. I have a vertex and experienced the same
frustrations. My wife gave me the remote mic/speaker and it freed up
my hands tremendously.

Lane
Could those of you who have solved this problem with remote mic /
speakers, headsets, etc. post the model numbers or detailed descriptions
of what you use and how you like it, so that the rest of us have some
idea of what we should buy?

Thanks,
Mike Schumann

--
Mike Schumann

Mandating radios leads to a false sense of security.
If I don't hear someone, no one must be there.

We train people that RADIOS FAIL or get "stepped on" by other transmissions.
Do not rely solely or trust radios.
Batteries can fail or loose charge.

We encourage the use of radio's in all of our equipment.
We fly from a fairly busy uncontrolled GA airport with two parallel runways.
Glider traffic on one side and power (other than tow) on the other.

We only have 1 club glider that does not have an "installed" radio.
People use a club or personal handheld in that glider.
My personal ICOM has a "speaker/mic" that plugs into the headset plugs and I
attach the speaker/mic to the shoulder harness.

The accident tow plane not having a radio can be considered a "contributing
factor", but it is not the underlying cause.
The high wind situation in the accident can be considered a "contributing
factor", but it is not the underlying cause.
The accident glider on a "non-standard" traffic pattern can be considered a
"contributing factor", but it is not the underlying cause.

Both pilots failed in the #1 responsibility during VMC flight, to SEE and
AVOID.

BT

"JJ Sinclair" wrote in message
...
The majority of clubs and FBO's in Region 11 have gone to a mandatory
radio policy after the recent midair where the tow plane and glider
collided turning final. The tow plane was not radio equipped and
therefore didn't know (hear) that the glider was turning final from
the other direction. That makes 4 fatalities in this region caused by
lack of communication between the tow pilot and glider!

Several clubs are using hand-held radios for ships that don't have
radios. I flew last Sunday with a hand-held radio and it took some
getting use to. First off, where do you put it so you can hear the
speaker? Also, I found transmitting combersome................pick it
up with left hand, turn the mike toward you and squeeze key while
flying with right hand. Then I clipped it to the right side of my
collar using the big spring clip on the radio. That worked well as it
was clase enough to hear and simply rotate and press the mike button
to transmit. I believe students would need some guidance like this to
be able to make the required radio calls using a hand-held radio. It
looks like most tow pilots are using helmets with head-sets so they
can hear their radios. Also, a com-check before takeoff is essential
to make sure both radios are on and working, volume up, squelch set
and on the correct frequency. I used the $200 ICOM from Wings & Wheels
and found it quite satisfactory.

We can survive a lot of things in this sport, but running into each
other isn't one of them!
JJ

I use an older Icom A-3 with the speaker mike. I would think any of
the Icom products with the matching Icom speaker mike would work well.
Not as good as installed system but certainly adequate for training
gliders.
I will admit the Icom Speaker mikes are a bit spendy but worth it IMO.

Brian




Could those of you who have solved this problem with remote mic /
speakers, headsets, etc. post the model numbers or detailed descriptions
of what you use and how you like it, so that the rest of us have some
idea of what we should buy?

Thanks,
Mike Schumann

--
Mike Schumann- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Feb 5, 9:05*pm, Brian wrote:
I use an older Icom A-3 with the speaker mike. I would think any of
the Icom products with the matching Icom speaker mike would work well.
Not as good as installed system but certainly adequate for training
gliders.
I will admit the Icom Speaker mikes are a bit spendy but worth it IMO.

Brian



Could those of you who have solved this problem with remote mic /
speakers, headsets, etc. post the model numbers or detailed descriptions
of what you use and how you like it, so that the rest of us have some
idea of what we should buy?

Thanks,
Mike Schumann

--
Mike Schumann- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Mike,

I use a Radio Shack speaker mic into a Delcom 960 that is panel
mounted with a ruvver duck antenna. Two years ago I replaced the very
dead 600 mah nicads with modern 2200 mah nimh batteries in the old
battery housing - they last two flying days be fore recharging. I
charge with a Triton R/C charger. This mod cost $10 using batteries
sourced from Ebay.

The mic works great and priced under $20. The jack plugs right in to
the Delcom and is the type with both male plugs molded into one
connector. I clip it to my harness. Not sure if RS still carries it.
Try he

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listi...&condition=all

/Adam

On Feb 5, 6:45*pm, "BT" wrote:
Mandating radios leads to a false sense of security.
If I don't hear someone, no one must be there.

We train people that RADIOS FAIL or get "stepped on" by other transmissions.
Do not rely solely or trust radios.
Batteries can fail or loose charge.

We encourage the use of radio's in all of our equipment.
We fly from a fairly busy uncontrolled GA airport with two parallel runways.
Glider traffic on one side and power (other than tow) on the other.

We only have 1 club glider that does not have an "installed" radio.
People use a club or personal handheld in that glider.
My personal ICOM has a "speaker/mic" that plugs into the headset plugs and I
attach the speaker/mic to the shoulder harness.

The accident tow plane not having a radio can be considered a "contributing
factor", but it is not the underlying cause.
The high wind situation in the accident can be considered a "contributing
factor", but it is not the underlying cause.
The accident glider on a "non-standard" traffic pattern can be considered a
"contributing factor", but it is not the underlying cause.

Both pilots failed in the #1 responsibility during VMC flight, to SEE and
AVOID.

BT

"JJ Sinclair" wrote in message

...



The majority of clubs and FBO's in Region 11 have gone to a mandatory
radio policy after the recent midair where the tow plane and glider
collided turning final. The tow plane was not radio equipped and
therefore didn't know (hear) that the glider was turning final from
the other direction. That makes 4 fatalities in this region caused by
lack of communication between the tow pilot and glider!

Several clubs are using hand-held radios for ships that don't have
radios. I flew last Sunday with a hand-held radio and it took some
getting use to. First off, where do you put it so you can hear the
speaker? Also, I found transmitting combersome................pick it
up with left hand, turn the mike toward you and squeeze key while
flying with right hand. Then I clipped it to the right side of my
collar using the big spring clip on the radio. That worked well as it
was clase enough to hear and simply rotate and press the mike button
to transmit. I believe students would need some guidance like this to
be able to make the required radio calls using a hand-held radio. It
looks like most tow pilots are using helmets with head-sets so they
can hear their radios. Also, a com-check before takeoff is essential
to make sure both radios are on and working, volume up, squelch set
and on the correct frequency. I used the $200 ICOM from Wings & Wheels
and found it quite satisfactory.

We can survive a lot of things in this sport, but running into each
other isn't one of them!
JJ- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The FAA and NTSB both acknowledge that "see and be seen" doesn't
always work, especially at higher speeds. In this case both pilots
attention was riveted on making a difficult landing in high winds with
a cross-wind component. Once they turned final each was in the others
blind spot as both aircraft were belly to belly. I believe this
accident would not have happened if either pilot knew the other was
attempting to land at the same time on the same
runway..........................................Al low me to restate my
position on mandatory radios: Four fatalities in region 11 could have
been prevented if the tow pilot and glider pilot had been in radio
contact.
JJ

A working radio should be required, at the least by the flying clubs.
Here in Germany most places I have flown require a radio check before
a launch. This is something I just can't get my mind around, not
having a working/mounted radio in every plane. And I don't think a
handheld meets this requirement unless it has a mounting in the plane,
therefore it wouldn't be a handheld.I don't want to be flying around
an airfield without pilots using proper (whatever that is) radio
verbage!

Flamesuit on!

Bob

On 2/6/2010 5:34 AM, Bob wrote:
A working radio should be required, at the least by the flying clubs.
Here in Germany most places I have flown require a radio check before
a launch. This is something I just can't get my mind around, not
having a working/mounted radio in every plane. And I don't think a
handheld meets this requirement unless it has a mounting in the plane,
therefore it wouldn't be a handheld.I don't want to be flying around
an airfield without pilots using proper (whatever that is) radio
verbage!

Flamesuit on!

Bob
This leads to the fundamental problem. We can buy handhelds for ~$200,
but a panel mount radio costs ~$1,000. If we could somehow get the
price of panel mount radios down to the handheld price, every glider in
the US would have one.

--
Mike Schumann

On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 23:44:23 -0800, JJ Sinclair wrote:

The FAA and NTSB both acknowledge that "see and be seen" doesn't always
work, especially at higher speeds. In this case both pilots attention
was riveted on making a difficult landing in high winds with a
cross-wind component. Once they turned final each was in the others
blind spot as both aircraft were belly to belly. I believe this accident
would not have happened if either pilot knew the other was attempting to
land at the same time on the same runway.

My club has never mandated circuit direction, but we do train ab initios
to look out for traffic on downwind on the other side of the run and
flying base leg in the opposite direction. AFAIK we've not had any in-
circuit accidents due to this factor.

We do now encourage radio use. Call to announce your intentions and where
you're coming from at 5km or so when returning after an xc task and again
on downwind after joining the circuit to announce your chosen run and
circuit direction.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

This leads to the fundamental problem. We can buy handhelds for ~$200,
but a panel mount radio costs ~$1,000. If we could somehow get the price
of panel mount radios down to the handheld price, every glider in the US
would have one.

I suspect this boils down to panel mount radios being TSOed and
handhelds being not.

JJ
I'll agree... to a point..
Radio's are good..
Radio's fail..
Mandating Radios may lead to a false sense of security.. Train otherwise
Radio gets blocked by another transmission..
Low battery.. you can hear but not transmit (glider).. and you don't know it
I would change "could have been prevented.." to "may have been prevented.."
There is no certainty.

My heart goes out to those involved.. we dodged the bullet on a mid air,
everyone survived.
It was not in the traffic pattern and a radio made no difference because not
being in the pattern, no broadcast were made.
BT

- Show quoted text -

The FAA and NTSB both acknowledge that "see and be seen" doesn't
always work, especially at higher speeds. In this case both pilots
attention was riveted on making a difficult landing in high winds with
a cross-wind component. Once they turned final each was in the others
blind spot as both aircraft were belly to belly. I believe this
accident would not have happened if either pilot knew the other was
attempting to land at the same time on the same
runway..........................................Al low me to restate my
position on mandatory radios: Four fatalities in region 11 could have
been prevented if the tow pilot and glider pilot had been in radio
contact.
JJ