Hellcat Mk I - NICE ! ! !

"Ray O'Hara" wrote in message
...


excellent



Thanks Ray
--
Andrew

"Heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible."
(Lord Kelvin, president, Royal Society, 1895.)

Paul Elliot wrote:
Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Enzo Matrix" wrote in message
...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Emperor_(D98)

http://www.navsource.org/archives/03/034.htm

One of the photographs here clearly shows a Hellcat with invasion
stripes, although the carrier was engaged on Operation DRAGOON at
the time.

The presence of invasion stripes does not indicate an aircraft
participated in the D-Day landings, it just indicates it operated over
western
Europe on June 6 1944 or later.


http://www.faqs.org/docs/air/avf6f.html#m4




From http://www.navsource.org/archives/03/034.htm comes this quote:

HMS Emperor was outfitted as a strike/CAP carrier. Provided fighter
cover for a strike on German battleship Tirpitz;

served as an ASW patrol ship at Normandy and supported invasion of
southern France before transferring to the Pacific.

which does support Enzo's statement that the ship was at Normandy on
D-Day.

Steven's link http://www.faqs.org/docs/air/avf6f.html#m4 states "The Hellcat
Is did not participate in the Normandy invasion in June 1944".

It seems most unlikely that a valuable resource such as a squadron of very
potent fighters would have sat out the biggest operation of the war. It may
be splitting hairs, but there is a way that we can *both* be right. It is
possible that Emperor's Hellcats were directly involved in fighter cover for
the ASW screen, either in the Western Approaches or in the English Channel
itself, and so did not actually make an appearance over the Normandy beach
head. Therefore, they didn't actually *participate* in the invasion, but
they did *support* it.

--
Enzo

I wear the cheese. It does not wear me.

"Enzo Matrix" skrev i en meddelelse
...
http://www.faqs.org/docs/air/avf6f.html#m4

From http://www.navsource.org/archives/03/034.htm comes this quote:

HMS Emperor was outfitted as a strike/CAP carrier. Provided fighter
cover for a strike on German battleship Tirpitz;

served as an ASW patrol ship at Normandy and supported invasion of
southern France before transferring to the Pacific.

which does support Enzo's statement that the ship was at Normandy on
D-Day.

Steven's link http://www.faqs.org/docs/air/avf6f.html#m4 states "The
Hellcat Is did not participate in the Normandy invasion in June 1944".

It seems most unlikely that a valuable resource such as a squadron of very
potent fighters would have sat out the biggest operation of the war. It
may be splitting hairs, but there is a way that we can *both* be right. It
is possible that Emperor's Hellcats were directly involved in fighter
cover for the ASW screen, either in the Western Approaches or in the
English Channel itself, and so did not actually make an appearance over
the Normandy beach head. Therefore, they didn't actually *participate* in
the invasion, but they did *support* it.

Grasping at straws now? ;-)

It did participate, as did all other that served on that day in any
capacity; and the original question was whether the paintscheme was
correct - It was!

Blume, Alf wrote:
"Enzo Matrix" skrev i en meddelelse
...
http://www.faqs.org/docs/air/avf6f.html#m4

From http://www.navsource.org/archives/03/034.htm comes this quote:

HMS Emperor was outfitted as a strike/CAP carrier. Provided fighter
cover for a strike on German battleship Tirpitz;

served as an ASW patrol ship at Normandy and supported invasion of
southern France before transferring to the Pacific.

which does support Enzo's statement that the ship was at Normandy on
D-Day.

Steven's link http://www.faqs.org/docs/air/avf6f.html#m4 states "The
Hellcat Is did not participate in the Normandy invasion in June
1944". It seems most unlikely that a valuable resource such as a squadron
of very potent fighters would have sat out the biggest operation of
the war. It may be splitting hairs, but there is a way that we can
*both* be right. It is possible that Emperor's Hellcats were
directly involved in fighter cover for the ASW screen, either in the
Western Approaches or in the English Channel itself, and so did not
actually make an appearance over the Normandy beach head. Therefore,
they didn't actually *participate* in the invasion, but they did
*support* it.

Grasping at straws now? ;-)

LOL As always.

--
Enzo

I wear the cheese. It does not wear me.

Andrew B wrote:
wrote in message
ng.com...
Maybe it's "OK" as a Franklin Mint diecast, but it doesn't hold a
candle to
a properly built plastic kit.

Brian


Would this be anywhere near qualifying as what you mean Brian?
I've been waiting for an excuse to post the pic for a while now, it
was taken while the model was suspended in front of a white-ish wall
having given the prop a quick spin. I'm just a little disappointed by
the under wing light/reflection. A standard plastic kit completed by
my brother.

My first reaction was "He's cheating! That's not a model - that's real!"
:-)

However, when you look closely - and it has to be really closely - you can
just about tell it's a model. Excellent work!

--
Enzo

I wear the cheese. It does not wear me.

"Enzo Matrix" wrote in message
...

My first reaction was "He's cheating! That's not a model - that's real!"
:-)

However, when you look closely - and it has to be really closely - you can
just about tell it's a model. Excellent work!

--
Enzo

I wear the cheese. It does not wear me.


Thanks Enzo, I'll make sure my brother gets to see your remarks and everyone
else's when he next visits.
--
Andrew

"Heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible."
(Lord Kelvin, president, Royal Society, 1895.)

"Enzo Matrix" wrote in message
...

Agreed. However we have two documents that mention Ermperor's service
during the D-Day landings. One document states that Emperor "served on
anti-submarine detail during Operation Overlord". The other states she
"served as an ASW patrol ship at Normandy".


I have no problem with the first one, I believe the second document is in
error. HMS Emperor does not appear among the list of ships participating in
Operation NEPTUNE, the naval side of OVERLORD. HMS Emperor may very well
have been engaged in ASW operations during the invasion, but if those
operations aren't considered direct support of NEPTUNE they can't be
considered direct support of the Normandy invasion.

The Royal Navy archive site does not mention Normandy or OVERLORD in it's
history of HMS Emperor.

http://www.royalnavyresearcharchive....RT/EMPEROR.htm



The same two documents also claim that Emperor took part in Operations
TUNGSTEN and DRAGOON. TUNGSTEN preceded OVERLORD, DRAGOON
was after it. Both TUNGSTEN and DRAGOON involved the use of Hellcats from
Emperor. It doesn't seem likely that the Hellcats were removed from
Emperor before
D-Day and replaced with some other naval fighter, only to be returned to
the ship immediately afterwards.


Agreed, and since there's no mention of participation in the Normandy
invasion in the history of 800 Squadron it seems likely that HMS Emperor did
not participate in that action.

http://www.fleetairarmarchive.net/Squadrons/800.htm



My statement, which you questioned, was "Emperor provided aircraft for the
anti-submarine screen during the D-Day landings, again with Hellcats as
fighter cover", which seems pretty much supported by those two documents.


Only by one of them, which appears to be in error.

"Paul Elliot" wrote in message
...

From http://www.navsource.org/archives/03/034.htm comes this quote:

HMS Emperor was outfitted as a strike/CAP carrier. Provided fighter cover
for a strike on German battleship Tirpitz;

served as an ASW patrol ship at Normandy and supported invasion of
southern France before transferring to the Pacific.

which does support Enzo's statement that the ship was at Normandy on
D-Day.


Yes, but that appears to be an error.

"Enzo Matrix" wrote in message
...

Steven's link http://www.faqs.org/docs/air/avf6f.html#m4 states "The
Hellcat Is did not participate in the Normandy invasion in June 1944".

It seems most unlikely that a valuable resource such as a squadron of very
potent fighters would have sat out the biggest operation of the war. It
may be splitting hairs, but there is a way that we can *both* be right. It
is possible that Emperor's Hellcats were directly involved in fighter
cover for the ASW screen, either in the Western Approaches or in the
English Channel itself, and so did not actually make an appearance over
the Normandy beach head. Therefore, they didn't actually *participate* in
the invasion, but they did *support* it.


Then why isn't HMS Emperor listed among the participating ships of Operation
NEPTUNE, and why isn't the Normandy invasion mentioned in the history of 800
Squadron?

"Blume, Alf" AlfBlume(a)hotmaildotcom wrote in message
k...

Grasping at straws now? ;-)

It did participate, as did all other that served on that day in any
capacity; and the original question was whether the paintscheme was
correct - It was!


The paint scheme is correct for the invasion of southern France.