ILS sans identification

Anyone have a reference for a requirement to identify an ils or vor
prior to it's use in the USA?
Secondly, is there any reference to the type of identification
required? For example, would checking that the primary flight display
is displaying the correct identifier suffice? Or is there a
stipulation for morse code audible type of identification?

Stan

In article ,
wrote:

Anyone have a reference for a requirement to identify an ils or vor
prior to it's use in the USA?
Secondly, is there any reference to the type of identification
required? For example, would checking that the primary flight display
is displaying the correct identifier suffice? Or is there a
stipulation for morse code audible type of identification?

Stan

I can't cite chapter and verse, but I never bother listening to the morse
ident any more. The GNS-480 decodes it for you and displays the letter
code. I can't see any possible failure mode where the display would be
wrong but I would be able to correct it by listening myself.

Roy Smith wrote:
In article ,
wrote:

Anyone have a reference for a requirement to identify an ils or vor
prior to it's use in the USA?
Secondly, is there any reference to the type of identification
required? For example, would checking that the primary flight display
is displaying the correct identifier suffice? Or is there a
stipulation for morse code audible type of identification?

Stan

I can't cite chapter and verse, but I never bother listening to the morse
ident any more. The GNS-480 decodes it for you and displays the letter
code. I can't see any possible failure mode where the display would be
wrong but I would be able to correct it by listening myself.

I don't know if it is a rule, but it is stupid not to. We had a plane
fly into terrain because they were tracking not the Localizer but a
nearby VOR.

The 480's and SL30's do nicely display the identifier. The 380 also
whack you if you try to fly an approach requiring NAV guidance with
the wrong frequency in the NAV side.

On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 19:59:55 -0500, Roy Smith wrote:


The GNS-480 decodes it for you and displays the letter
code. I can't see any possible failure mode where the display would be
wrong but I would be able to correct it by listening myself.

Does it actually decode it or just display to info from its database.

wrote:

Anyone have a reference for a requirement to identify an ils or vor
prior to it's use in the USA?
Secondly, is there any reference to the type of identification
required? For example, would checking that the primary flight display
is displaying the correct identifier suffice? Or is there a
stipulation for morse code audible type of identification?

Stan


I don't think it is required by a regulation, but it is good practice to
do so. I can think of one place where you can get two different ILS's
on the same frequency: Just east of Wilkes Barre, PA at ~6000' while
tuning into the Williamsport ILS27 (110.1 if memory serves), you pick up
another ILS, which I think may be Stewart on the same frequency. No way
to know which one you are receiving if you don't decode the Morse code.
While this is outside the published service volume, if you are
receiving the Williamsport ILS and tell ATC you've got it, they'll let
you track that inbound rather than going to the Williamsport VOR then
doglegging back to get to the IAF.

Another example is it lets you catch faulty equipment. Last fall, my #2
NAV developed an intermittent problem where the synthesizer was
generating the wrong local oscillator frequency and tuning to another
VOR in the area. Again, listening to the Morse code flagged the problem
right away even though the VOR was showing a valid signal and there was
a morse code....it was the wrong one.

Anyone have a reference for a requirement to identify an ils or vor
prior to it's use in the USA?


91.3?

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

ArtP,

Does it actually decode it or just display to info from its database.


Actual decode.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

The FAA removes the ID when the radio facility is out of
tolerance and "not in service" even though there may be a
signal being broadcast [maybe part of testing or trouble
shooting/repair] so it is my practice to have the audio on
at low volume. The monitoring decoding by the hardware is
very nice.
AIM 1-1-3
c. The only positive method of identifying a VOR is by its
Morse Code identification or by the recorded automatic voice
identification which is always indicated by use of the word
"VOR" following the range's name. Reliance on determining
the identification of an omnirange should never be placed on
listening to voice transmissions by the Flight Service
Station (FSS) (or approach control facility) involved. Many
FSSs remotely operate several omniranges with different
names. In some cases, none of the VORs have the name of the
"parent" FSS. During periods of maintenance, the facility
may radiate a T-E-S-T code (- · ··· -) or the code may be
removed

1-1-12. NAVAID Identifier Removal During Maintenance

During periods of routine or emergency maintenance, coded
identification (or code and voice, where applicable) is
removed from certain FAA NAVAIDs. Removal of identification
serves as a warning to pilots that the facility is
officially off the air for tune-up or repair and may be
unreliable even though intermittent or constant signals are
received.

NOTE-
During periods of maintenance VHF ranges may radiate a
T-E-S-T code (- l l l l -).

NOTE-
DO NOT attempt to fly a procedure that is NOTAMed out of
service even if the identification is present. In certain
cases, the identification may be transmitted for short
periods as part of the testing.






"Thomas Borchert" wrote in
message ...
| Anyone have a reference for a requirement to identify an
ils or vor
| prior to it's use in the USA?
|
|
| 91.3?
|
| --
| Thomas Borchert (EDDH)
|

In article , Ron Natalie
wrote:

Roy Smith wrote:
In article ,
wrote:

Anyone have a reference for a requirement to identify an ils or vor
prior to it's use in the USA?
Secondly, is there any reference to the type of identification
required? For example, would checking that the primary flight display
is displaying the correct identifier suffice? Or is there a
stipulation for morse code audible type of identification?

Stan

I can't cite chapter and verse, but I never bother listening to the morse
ident any more. The GNS-480 decodes it for you and displays the letter
code. I can't see any possible failure mode where the display would be
wrong but I would be able to correct it by listening myself.

I don't know if it is a rule, but it is stupid not to. We had a plane
fly into terrain because they were tracking not the Localizer but a
nearby VOR.

I didn't say I didn't identify it, I said I didn't listen to the morse.
The box listens to the morse for me and displays it as letters. I check to
make sure IHPN comes up in the display.

If I'm flying something without the decode feature, then I listen myself.

In article ,
ArtP wrote:

On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 19:59:55 -0500, Roy Smith wrote:


The GNS-480 decodes it for you and displays the letter
code. I can't see any possible failure mode where the display would be
wrong but I would be able to correct it by listening myself.

Does it actually decode it or just display to info from its database.

It actually decodes it, and it has to decode it twice in a row the same way
before it display it. On a really weak signal, you can sometimes see it
get one of the letters wrong, then shortly after that, correct it.