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#11
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Obstacle avoidance between take-off and airway
Mxsmanic wrote:
Sam Spade writes: What part of "Not Authorized" doesn't your mousetrap brain understand? Ah ... I thought NA meant not applicable. It makes more sense now. If you had ever read FAR Part 97 you wouldn't have thought that. |
#12
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Obstacle avoidance between take-off and airway
On Jan 13, 12:28 pm, Sam Spade wrote:
[...] Oops! My bad. I didn't look carefull and thought I was responding to a pilot. Yet you continue replying... |
#13
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Obstacle avoidance between take-off and airway
Mxsmanic wrote:
Yesterday I tried to plan a flight from Big Bear City (California) to Santa Monica, in a Bonanza. The routing I worked out was L35..DAWNA.V8.PDZ.V186 TIFNI.ELMOO.DARTS..KSMO. DAWNA is on a portion of the airway that shows a MEA of 10500 on the chart. Since I was westbound, I figured to climb to 12000. I planned to depart from runway 26. My calculations showed that the Bonanza could carry out this climb. My question is: How do I make sure that I don't hit anything between the runway and the first fix on my filed route? The ODP for Big Bear only gives details for runway 8, and says "N/A" for runway 26. The only departure procedure is an obstacle departure, also for runway 8. So what's the proper way for me to plan a flight so that I don't run into anything between the time I leave runway 26 and the time I reach DAWNA? Should I use a VFR sectional? Is there something on en-route IFR charts that I'm missing? Did I overlook something in the Instrument Procedures Handbook (it seems surprisingly vague on this)? If no instrument departure gradients are published in a departure procedure, then the default gradient requirement applies, which is 200 ft/NM. John |
#14
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Obstacle avoidance between take-off and airway
Sam Spade writes:
If you had ever read FAR Part 97 you wouldn't have thought that. Well, I could have read it and forgotten it, but in this case I simply had not read Part 97 in detail. After reading your post, I note that 97.3 does indeed define NA as "not authorized." Thanks for the pointer. |
#15
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Obstacle avoidance between take-off and airway
J.Kahn writes:
If no instrument departure gradients are published in a departure procedure, then the default gradient requirement applies, which is 200 ft/NM. OK, thanks. It looks like IFR departures from runway 26 in L35 aren't allowed at all, so I suppose I'll have to depart from runway 8 in the future if I really want to depart IFR. Odd that there's nothing for runway 26 since it leads right over the lake. |
#16
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Obstacle avoidance between take-off and airway
On Jan 13, 5:09*am, wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 22:13:08 +0100, Mxsmanic wrote: Yesterday I tried to plan a flight from Big Bear City (California) to Santa Monica, in a Bonanza. *The routing I worked out was L35..DAWNA.V8.PDZ.V186 TIFNI.ELMOO.DARTS..KSMO. *DAWNA is on a portion of the airway that shows a MEA of 10500 on the chart. *Since I was westbound, I figured to climb to 12000. *I planned to depart from runway 26. *My calculations showed that the Bonanza could carry out this climb. My question is: *How do I make sure that I don't hit anything between the runway and the first fix on my filed route? *The ODP for Big Bear only gives details for runway 8, and says "N/A" for runway 26. *The only departure procedure is an obstacle departure, also for runway 8. *So what's the proper way for me to plan a flight so that I don't run into anything between the time I leave runway 26 and the time I reach DAWNA? *Should I use a VFR sectional? Is there something on en-route IFR charts that I'm missing? *Did I overlook something in the Instrument Procedures Handbook (it seems surprisingly vague on this)? I don't have the plate in front of me. *Sounds like there is no ifr procedure off runway 26, so there is no way to be sure of obstacles without using a vfr sectional as you say. *Personally I don't know of anyone who has used a vfr sectional in ifr conditions, and I don't think I ever would. *Of course, you could fly visually if weather permitted. *Stan- Hide quoted text - Your either joking or don't fly IFR in GA aircraft very often. There are lots of airports where you have to define your own IFR departure using the sectional charts. Some airports don't even show up on the EnRoute charts. -Robert |
#17
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Obstacle avoidance between take-off and airway
On Jan 14, 9:50*am, "J.Kahn" wrote:
Mxsmanic wrote: Yesterday I tried to plan a flight from Big Bear City (California) to Santa Monica, in a Bonanza. *The routing I worked out was L35..DAWNA.V8.PDZ.V186 TIFNI.ELMOO.DARTS..KSMO. *DAWNA is on a portion of the airway that shows a MEA of 10500 on the chart. *Since I was westbound, I figured to climb to 12000. *I planned to depart from runway 26. *My calculations showed that the Bonanza could carry out this climb. My question is: *How do I make sure that I don't hit anything between the runway and the first fix on my filed route? *The ODP for Big Bear only gives details for runway 8, and says "N/A" for runway 26. *The only departure procedure is an obstacle departure, also for runway 8. *So what's the proper way for me to plan a flight so that I don't run into anything between the time I leave runway 26 and the time I reach DAWNA? *Should I use a VFR sectional? Is there something on en-route IFR charts that I'm missing? *Did I overlook something in the Instrument Procedures Handbook (it seems surprisingly vague on this)? If no instrument departure gradients are published in a departure procedure, then the default gradient requirement applies, which is 200 ft/NM. Huh? The FAA guarantees you won't hit anything when you are not flying a procedure as long as you climb at 200 ft/nm? I think you are mixing up two different things. When there is no procedure in place for departure you grab your sectional and plan a route. Lots of airports don't even appear in the approach manual. -robert, CFII |
#18
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Obstacle avoidance between take-off and airway
On Jan 14, 11:04*am, Mxsmanic wrote:
J.Kahn writes: If no instrument departure gradients are published in a departure procedure, then the default gradient requirement applies, which is 200 ft/NM. OK, thanks. It looks like IFR departures from runway 26 in L35 aren't allowed at all, so I suppose I'll have to depart from runway 8 in the future if I really want to depart IFR. *Odd that there's nothing for runway 26 since it leads right over the lake. No, the procedure is not authorized on runway 26. -robert |
#19
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Obstacle avoidance between take-off and airway
Mxsmanic wrote:
J.Kahn writes: If no instrument departure gradients are published in a departure procedure, then the default gradient requirement applies, which is 200 ft/NM. OK, thanks. It looks like IFR departures from runway 26 in L35 aren't allowed at all, so I suppose I'll have to depart from runway 8 in the future if I really want to depart IFR. Odd that there's nothing for runway 26 since it leads right over the lake. So you can be grounded by unfavorable winds... that sucks. I wonder if the reason is simply that departure in that direction doesn't meet 200 ft/NM at some distance out, maybe 10 or 20 miles, but the FAA has not got around to doing the required survey to arrive at a specified departure gradient requirement so they just declare it NA until someday they get around to it. I believe that you have to be able to have obstacle clearance with 200 ft/NM out to 22 NM from the runway before you have to have a specified gradient other than default, which gets you to 4400 HAA. John |
#20
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Obstacle avoidance between take-off and airway
On Jan 14, 3:59*pm, "J.Kahn" wrote:
I wonder if the reason is simply that departure in that direction doesn't meet 200 ft/NM at some distance out, maybe 10 or 20 miles, but the FAA has not got around to doing the required survey to arrive at a specified departure gradient requirement so they just declare it NA until someday they get around to it. * I believe that you have to be able to have obstacle clearance with 200 ft/NM out to 22 NM from the runway before you have to have a specified gradient other than default, which gets you to 4400 HAA. The 200 ft/nm applies to departure procedures that do not otherwise specify a minimum climb gradient. Absent a departure procedure the pilot is free to make up any procedure he sees fit. The FAA has not come close to visiting every airport and creating DPs for every runway out there. -robert, CFII |
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