Bothering a Pilot on Final

On 2008-05-29, wrote:
I recall being taught to announce a position when overflying an
airport (assuming you aren't overflying by some ridiculous amount).
I announce when overflying to have a look-see before joining the
pattern. Someone else might be doing the same thing.

Me too. It's the guys who announce that they're overflying FRM at 4500 MSL
(airport elevation is 1162) that leave me scratching my head.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 10 June)

I really like are the guys who announce that they're "over-flying the
field
at 4500 feet, heading West..."

I hadn't heard that until I started listening to the Fairmont CTAF. What's
the point?

I confess to making that announcement a couple of times, when I was a
newly-minted private pilot, as I passed over my home field. I think the
guys doing it are just so damned proud of their accomplishment that they
want their buds -- or anyone else listening -- to know that they're "up
there"...

It's really just silly.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"
"Jay Maynard" wrote in message
...
On 2008-05-28, Jay Honeck wrote:
I really like are the guys who announce that they're "over-flying the
field
at 4500 feet, heading West..."

I hadn't heard that until I started listening to the Fairmont CTAF. What's
the point?
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 10 June)

I recall being taught to announce a position when overflying an
airport (assuming you aren't overflying by some ridiculous amount).
I announce when overflying to have a look-see before joining the
pattern. Someone else might be doing the same thing.

Sure, if you're over-flying an airport that you're landing at, announcing is
proper procedure. But if you're flying cross-country, it's kinda silly to
announce that you're over-flying every airport en route...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"
wrote in message
...
On May 28, 10:22 am, Dale wrote:
In article GYe%j.183758$yE1.50750@attbi_s21,
"Jay Honeck" wrote:



I really like are the guys who announce that they're "over-flying the
field
at 4500 feet, heading West..."

Is that really so bad? Quite common to use an airport as a waypoint, by
making the announcement it may let the other guy at 4500 overflying know
to put the paper down.

In Canada that kind of report is required if there is a Mandatory Freq.

I recall being taught to announce a position when overflying an
airport (assuming you aren't overflying by some ridiculous amount).
I announce when overflying to have a look-see before joining the
pattern. Someone else might be doing the same thing.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in
news:wuq%j.184699$yE1.158333@attbi_s21:

I really like are the guys who announce that they're "over-flying
the field
at 4500 feet, heading West..."

I hadn't heard that until I started listening to the Fairmont CTAF.
What's the point?

I confess to making that announcement a couple of times, when I was a
newly-minted private pilot, as I passed over my home field. I think
the guys doing it are just so damned proud of their accomplishment
that they want their buds -- or anyone else listening -- to know that
they're "up there"...

It's really just silly.

Just like you.


Bertie

"Jay Honeck" wrote:
Sure, if you're over-flying an airport that you're landing at, announcing is
proper procedure. But if you're flying cross-country, it's kinda silly to
announce that you're over-flying every airport en route...

Depends, IMO. We have several uncontrolled fields in this area. If I'm
in the pattern and someone is overflying 500 feet-or-so above (I realize
if you're on a x-c, you'd likely be higher, but maybe not), I find it
helpful to know if they're going to join the pattern or if they're
overflying and continuing on. I prefer the call to not knowing.

I heard someone talking about how it isn't necessary to make a call
coming into an uncontrolled airport "if it isn't busy". So if 6 people
are coming in thinking it isn't busy because it's quiet (there goes that
idea!). I absolutely understand not making unnecessary radio calls, but
why are some *so* opposed to making a call?

"Jay Honeck" wrote:
I confess to making that announcement a couple of times, when I was a
newly-minted private pilot, as I passed over my home field. I think the
guys doing it are just so damned proud of their accomplishment that they
want their buds -- or anyone else listening -- to know that they're "up
there"...

It's really just silly.

I disagree that it's "just silly" or that it's only "newly minted
private pilots" bragging to buds that they're up there. Around here,
lots of people fly close to pattern altitude. If I'm in the pattern, I
appreciate knowing what they're staying or continuing on vs. having to
guess.

"Tina" wrote in message
...
My personal favorite, and this was the tower at KBED, is we were
flying the ILS into 11 at KBED, at night, ceiling was said to be 300
feet or so, and half way in from the OM tower asked for the landing
light. Can you think of a better way to ruin night vision than
lighting up the inside of a cloud?

"Hanscom Tower, we'll wait until we break out."


Probably the same Hanscom controller that told someone to position and hold
while I was on short final. What really sucked was that the sun was shining
through the prop on final. I really didn't enjoy going through that strobe
effect again.

Shirl wrote:
"Jay Honeck" wrote:
Sure, if you're over-flying an airport that you're landing at, announcing is
proper procedure. But if you're flying cross-country, it's kinda silly to
announce that you're over-flying every airport en route...

Depends, IMO. We have several uncontrolled fields in this area. If I'm
in the pattern and someone is overflying 500 feet-or-so above (I realize
if you're on a x-c, you'd likely be higher, but maybe not), I find it
helpful to know if they're going to join the pattern or if they're
overflying and continuing on. I prefer the call to not knowing.

I heard someone talking about how it isn't necessary to make a call
coming into an uncontrolled airport "if it isn't busy". So if 6 people
are coming in thinking it isn't busy because it's quiet (there goes that
idea!). I absolutely understand not making unnecessary radio calls, but
why are some *so* opposed to making a call?

The way I taught this was to consider the altitude and use common sense.
If crossing high enough that you are well out of the transition area
where someone coming out of or descending into an uncontrolled airport
would be, no need to say anything.

If however, you were crossing en route above the pattern altitude but
inside the area right above that....say to within a thousand feet above,
where aircraft entering or leaving the area might be present, it's a
good idea to let the airport know who you are where you are and where
you're headed.

--
Dudley Henriques

I disagree that it's "just silly" or that it's only "newly minted
private pilots" bragging to buds that they're up there. Around here,
lots of people fly close to pattern altitude. If I'm in the pattern, I
appreciate knowing what they're staying or continuing on vs. having to
guess.

The example I used was 4500 feet, which, around here, puts you almost 4000'
AGL -- way above pattern altitude.

If you're at, say, 2000 feet, a call to let people know that you're in the
neighborhood is probably a good idea.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On Thu, 29 May 2008 09:52:44 -0400, Dudley Henriques
wrote in
:

If crossing high enough that you are well out of the transition area
where someone coming out of or descending into an uncontrolled airport
would be, no need to say anything.

If however, you were crossing en route above the pattern altitude but
inside the area right above that....say to within a thousand feet above,
where aircraft entering or leaving the area might be present, it's a
good idea to let the airport know who you are where you are and where
you're headed.

The Advisory Circular mentions notifying UNICOM stations of over
flight of uncontrolled fields, but I find no mention of
self-announcing over flight intention on CTAF:

AC No: 9042F

http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/c54e50252a7fa56d862569d8007804ba/$FILE/ac90-42F.pdf
10 . UNICOM COMMUNICATION PROCEDURES.
a. In communicating with a UNICOM station, the flowing practices
will help reduce frequency
congestion, facilitate a better understanding of pilot intentions,
help identify the location of aircraft in. the traffic pattern,
and enhance safety of flight:
(1) Select the correct CTAF frequency.
(2) State the identification of the UNICOM station you are calling
in each transmission.
(3) Speak slowly and distinctly.
(4) Notify the UNICOM station approximately 10 miles from the
airport, reporting altitude, aircraft type, aircraft
identification, location relative to the airport, and whether
-- landing or overflight.
Request wind information and runway in use.
(5) Report on downwind, base, and final approach.
(6) Report leaving the runway.



The AIM also mentions notifying UNICOM stations of over flight intent,
and while stating intentions on CTAF is mentioned in 4-1-9(g)(1), I
find no mention of broadcasting over flight intent on CTAF:


http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraff...4/aim0401.html
4-1-9. Traffic Advisory Practices at Airports Without Operating
Control Towers

g. Self-Announce Position and/or Intentions

1. General. Self-announce is a procedure whereby pilots broadcast
their position or intended flight activity or ground operation on
the designated CTAF. This procedure is used primarily at airports
which do not have an FSS on the airport. The self-announce
procedure should also be used if a pilot is unable to communicate
with the FSS on the designated CTAF. Pilots stating, "Traffic in
the area, please advise" is not a recognized Self-Announce
Position and/or Intention phrase and should not be used under any
condition.


So, announcing intent to over fly an airport on CTAF is a bit
ambiguous. As you have indicated, if it seems prudent, do it.