More plane ownership?

This is something that has puzzled me for a while...

I (a private pilot) work in the pleasure marine industry and have noticed
that almost anyone who wants to own a boat does own a boat. Now, some boats
are indeed pretty cheap, but a $20,000 boat is fairly common (approx cost of
a 150?). Here in the Clear Lake area of Texas there are something like
10,000 boats sitting in marina slips with an average cost of something like
$30,000 each... many cost way, way more than that. A boat slip here on the
Texas coast will run you about $5/foot (which is cheap, I know) and
insurance for a $100,000 boat will run you maybe $2,000 a year. Most leave
their slips once or twice a year. Marine maintenance and gear is not cheap
either. That is a whole lot of expense for so little use.

That is 10,000 people, here in Houston alone, that never bothered to take a
class in boating, but that are willing to drop $30,000 on one, pay $150-$250
on slip rent and $100-$150 per month on insurance.

After so much effort learning to fly, why do pilots not do the same thing?
Whereas most boaters own a boat, most pilots do not own a plane.

Is it initial cost? Boats and planes cost about the same, so I don't think
that is it.

Is it storage? A boat slip can cost a bit less than a hanger, or a bit more,
but planes can use cheap tie-downs. Do people not buy planes because they
might have to tie it down outside?

Is it lack of use? Boaters have the same problem... when to use the boat in
their spare time. Why would they spring for the boat and a pilot with the
same time constraints not spring for the plane?

Is it insurance? Plane insurance is more costly than boat insurance, but
using a tie-down would make up for that.

Is it maintenance? Perhaps that is it... planes are required to undergo
expensive preventive maintenance where boats just get a tow back to shore
when something breaks. Is it really the fear of 'the annual' that causes
people not to fly?

Is it fear of flying? Do people learn to fly because they want the challenge
but secretly believe they are just asking to make their wife a widow every
time they fly? Do people not trust an airplane they could buy?

I truly want to know the reason for this and the only way I am going to find
out is to listen to more pilots.

So please, if you are a pilot, and you don't own a plane, please email me
with a candid explanation as to why you personally don't own one. I will
compile the 'data' and post it back to the group once I have some idea of
the answer.

Dave
74 Grumman AA5, N9560L
dave(a)thecoverts.com

Can I make a prediction of what you will find? I don't want to taint your
unscientific survey if you don't want me too.



"Dave Covert" wrote in message
...
This is something that has puzzled me for a while...

I (a private pilot) work in the pleasure marine industry and have noticed
that almost anyone who wants to own a boat does own a boat. Now, some
boats
are indeed pretty cheap, but a $20,000 boat is fairly common (approx cost
of
a 150?). Here in the Clear Lake area of Texas there are something like
10,000 boats sitting in marina slips with an average cost of something
like
$30,000 each... many cost way, way more than that. A boat slip here on the
Texas coast will run you about $5/foot (which is cheap, I know) and
insurance for a $100,000 boat will run you maybe $2,000 a year. Most leave
their slips once or twice a year. Marine maintenance and gear is not cheap
either. That is a whole lot of expense for so little use.

That is 10,000 people, here in Houston alone, that never bothered to take
a
class in boating, but that are willing to drop $30,000 on one, pay
$150-$250
on slip rent and $100-$150 per month on insurance.

After so much effort learning to fly, why do pilots not do the same thing?
Whereas most boaters own a boat, most pilots do not own a plane.

Is it initial cost? Boats and planes cost about the same, so I don't think
that is it.

Is it storage? A boat slip can cost a bit less than a hanger, or a bit
more,
but planes can use cheap tie-downs. Do people not buy planes because they
might have to tie it down outside?

Is it lack of use? Boaters have the same problem... when to use the boat
in
their spare time. Why would they spring for the boat and a pilot with the
same time constraints not spring for the plane?

Is it insurance? Plane insurance is more costly than boat insurance, but
using a tie-down would make up for that.

Is it maintenance? Perhaps that is it... planes are required to undergo
expensive preventive maintenance where boats just get a tow back to shore
when something breaks. Is it really the fear of 'the annual' that causes
people not to fly?

Is it fear of flying? Do people learn to fly because they want the
challenge
but secretly believe they are just asking to make their wife a widow every
time they fly? Do people not trust an airplane they could buy?

I truly want to know the reason for this and the only way I am going to
find
out is to listen to more pilots.

So please, if you are a pilot, and you don't own a plane, please email me
with a candid explanation as to why you personally don't own one. I will
compile the 'data' and post it back to the group once I have some idea of
the answer.

Dave
74 Grumman AA5, N9560L
dave(a)thecoverts.com

On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 18:52:28 GMT, "Dave Covert"
wrote:


So please, if you are a pilot, and you don't own a plane, please email me
with a candid explanation as to why you personally don't own one. I will
compile the 'data' and post it back to the group once I have some idea of
the answer.

I own a plane (SR20), it costs me $6000 a year for insurance, $3600 a
year for a hangar (no electricity and gravel floor), about $3000 a
year in maintenance and I only fly about 100 hours. That works out to
$165 an hour. That does not include the cost of the plane. Before
buying the Cirrus I was in a club that only charged $70 an hour for a
Cessna 172. My FBO will rent a Piper twin for $150. Buying was the
biggest financial mistake I ever made.

"ArtP" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 18:52:28 GMT, "Dave Covert"
wrote:


So please, if you are a pilot, and you don't own a plane, please email me
with a candid explanation as to why you personally don't own one. I will
compile the 'data' and post it back to the group once I have some idea of
the answer.

I own a plane (SR20), it costs me $6000 a year for insurance, $3600 a
year for a hangar (no electricity and gravel floor), about $3000 a
year in maintenance and I only fly about 100 hours. That works out to
$165 an hour. That does not include the cost of the plane. Before
buying the Cirrus I was in a club that only charged $70 an hour for a
Cessna 172. My FBO will rent a Piper twin for $150. Buying was the
biggest financial mistake I ever made.

I'll do you one better!

I was renting hanger space for $350/month and I could call the FBO and tell
them I was going flying. They would take the airplane out of the hanger and
fuel it at the self serve pump (and give me a discount). Then they would
put the airplane away. The next morning they pulled the airplane out before
I arrived.


THEN, I bought a hanger lot with deeded runway access and had an 80x80
hanger built. Now I have to pull the airplane in and out, make sure the
taxiway is cleared of snow, FOD ect. I am also diagonally across the
airport from the fuel island and they don't have a fuel truck. So after
spending a couple hundred thousand on my new hanger, I recieved my first
natural gas bill...$537...property taxes...~$250/month...electicity
~$50/month.

Mike
MU-2

Dave, to me this is a no-brainer. With a boat, one pays the registration, sticks
it in the water, and off one goes! No classes, no tests, no big brother
regulations, no "fraternity" of jack-ass geezer aviators telling you stupid
stuff about you're not a pilot if you have a nose wheel, etc. Plus you can drink
beer on the boat and you don't genally die if the motor quits.

Best regards,

Steve Robertson (geezer, but with a nose wheel)
N4732J 1967 Beechcraft A23-24 Musketeer

Dave Covert wrote:

This is something that has puzzled me for a while...

I (a private pilot) work in the pleasure marine industry and have noticed
that almost anyone who wants to own a boat does own a boat. Now, some boats
are indeed pretty cheap, but a $20,000 boat is fairly common (approx cost of
a 150?). Here in the Clear Lake area of Texas there are something like
10,000 boats sitting in marina slips with an average cost of something like
$30,000 each... many cost way, way more than that. A boat slip here on the
Texas coast will run you about $5/foot (which is cheap, I know) and
insurance for a $100,000 boat will run you maybe $2,000 a year. Most leave
their slips once or twice a year. Marine maintenance and gear is not cheap
either. That is a whole lot of expense for so little use.

That is 10,000 people, here in Houston alone, that never bothered to take a
class in boating, but that are willing to drop $30,000 on one, pay $150-$250
on slip rent and $100-$150 per month on insurance.

After so much effort learning to fly, why do pilots not do the same thing?
Whereas most boaters own a boat, most pilots do not own a plane.

Is it initial cost? Boats and planes cost about the same, so I don't think
that is it.

Is it storage? A boat slip can cost a bit less than a hanger, or a bit more,
but planes can use cheap tie-downs. Do people not buy planes because they
might have to tie it down outside?

Is it lack of use? Boaters have the same problem... when to use the boat in
their spare time. Why would they spring for the boat and a pilot with the
same time constraints not spring for the plane?

Is it insurance? Plane insurance is more costly than boat insurance, but
using a tie-down would make up for that.

Is it maintenance? Perhaps that is it... planes are required to undergo
expensive preventive maintenance where boats just get a tow back to shore
when something breaks. Is it really the fear of 'the annual' that causes
people not to fly?

Is it fear of flying? Do people learn to fly because they want the challenge
but secretly believe they are just asking to make their wife a widow every
time they fly? Do people not trust an airplane they could buy?

I truly want to know the reason for this and the only way I am going to find
out is to listen to more pilots.

So please, if you are a pilot, and you don't own a plane, please email me
with a candid explanation as to why you personally don't own one. I will
compile the 'data' and post it back to the group once I have some idea of
the answer.

Dave
74 Grumman AA5, N9560L
dave(a)thecoverts.com

It is harder to rent a boat than it is to rent a plane. It is harder to own
a plane than it is to own a boat.

no tests, no big brother
regulations, no "fraternity" of jack-ass geezer aviators telling you
stupid
stuff about you're not a pilot if you have a nose wheel, etc. Plus you can
drink
beer on the boat and you don't genally die if the motor quits.

You forgot the bikini-clad deck candy... g

Dave

I guess I have a different perspective, one that isn't so burdensome...

I own a 74 Grumman Traveler that I tie down for $35. The plane cost me $30K
to buy and insurance is less than $1000 a year for my wife (student) and I.
Annuals run about $1000 a year (the Grumman is a simple plane). I use about
10 gal/hr and go 115kt in cruise. It is just about like owning an older
classic car. I also fly about 100 hours a year so my hourly comes out to
about $45/hr.

I was going to say that based on your experience, I can see why more people
don't own expensive new planes, but then I read in the AOPA mag that Cirrus
is selling nearly one plane a day (1000 in less than 3 years).

Dave

"ArtP" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 18:52:28 GMT, "Dave Covert"
wrote:


So please, if you are a pilot, and you don't own a plane, please email me
with a candid explanation as to why you personally don't own one. I will
compile the 'data' and post it back to the group once I have some idea of
the answer.

I own a plane (SR20), it costs me $6000 a year for insurance, $3600 a
year for a hangar (no electricity and gravel floor), about $3000 a
year in maintenance and I only fly about 100 hours. That works out to
$165 an hour. That does not include the cost of the plane. Before
buying the Cirrus I was in a club that only charged $70 an hour for a
Cessna 172. My FBO will rent a Piper twin for $150. Buying was the
biggest financial mistake I ever made.

Hey... taint away... g

Dave

"Dude" wrote in message
...
Can I make a prediction of what you will find? I don't want to taint your
unscientific survey if you don't want me too.

On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 18:52:28 GMT "Dave Covert" wrote:

This is something that has puzzled me for a while...

I (a private pilot) work in the pleasure marine industry and have noticed
that almost anyone who wants to own a boat does own a boat. Now, some boats
are indeed pretty cheap, but a $20,000 boat is fairly common (approx cost of
a 150?). Here in the Clear Lake area of Texas there are something like
10,000 boats sitting in marina slips with an average cost of something like
$30,000 each... many cost way, way more than that. A boat slip here on the
Texas coast will run you about $5/foot (which is cheap, I know) and
insurance for a $100,000 boat will run you maybe $2,000 a year. Most leave
their slips once or twice a year. Marine maintenance and gear is not cheap
either. That is a whole lot of expense for so little use.


price/(time used) doesn't count
But I'll bet planes are still more.


That is 10,000 people, here in Houston alone, that never bothered to take a
class in boating, but that are willing to drop $30,000 on one, pay $150-$250
on slip rent and $100-$150 per month on insurance.

After so much effort learning to fly, why do pilots not do the same thing?
Whereas most boaters own a boat, most pilots do not own a plane.

A boat is cheaper than a plane. You can haul more people on a boat of comparable
plane value. You can do a lot more on a boat. Fish, scuba, camping, swimming,
cooking, sleeping, kayaking, etc.



Is it initial cost? Boats and planes cost about the same, so I don't think
that is it.

Is it storage? A boat slip can cost a bit less than a hanger, or a bit more,
but planes can use cheap tie-downs. Do people not buy planes because they
might have to tie it down outside?


There are a lot more boat slips than hangars/tie-downs in most coastal towns
that also have an airport. The harbors I've seen are maintained by the city
or county.




Is it lack of use? Boaters have the same problem... when to use the boat in
their spare time. Why would they spring for the boat and a pilot with the
same time constraints not spring for the plane?


Plane more complicated to own, you can't do all the repair work
but on a boat you can do all, if you want to....



Is it insurance? Plane insurance is more costly than boat insurance, but
using a tie-down would make up for that.


I don't follow??



Is it maintenance? Perhaps that is it... planes are required to undergo
expensive preventive maintenance where boats just get a tow back to shore
when something breaks. Is it really the fear of 'the annual' that causes
people not to fly?


More expensive, in all areas. Compare marine GPS and aviation GPS.



Is it fear of flying? Do people learn to fly because they want the challenge
but secretly believe they are just asking to make their wife a widow every
time they fly? Do people not trust an airplane they could buy?

Ocean boating is very dangerous and yet it's so easy to sail into it
but not that many people die. You can be rescued. They have the
equivalent of triple A on water in a lot of metro areas now.
Call them and get a tow back to port. Or if it gets real hairy call
the Coast Guard. There's almost always someone to bail you out.

A boat's mission is much more versatile.

Harbors and harbor areas generate lots of tourist money too
in a lot of cases. Airports that accept govt. money have strings
attached and the moeny has to go back into the airport.



R. Hubbell


I truly want to know the reason for this and the only way I am going to find
out is to listen to more pilots.

So please, if you are a pilot, and you don't own a plane, please email me
with a candid explanation as to why you personally don't own one. I will
compile the 'data' and post it back to the group once I have some idea of
the answer.

Dave
74 Grumman AA5, N9560L
dave(a)thecoverts.com