Navy Wings?

On Fri, 19 Jan 2007 18:59:00 -0800, Bill Baker
wrote:

Given the numbers you say the Navy cut, at least some of the pilots
given the chop must have been Marine sticks, right Ed?

IIRC this was a Navy RIF. I'm not sure any Marines got cut.

IIRC in the '72-'74 timeframe USN promotions to LT took a big
"nosedive." In the VP community it was particularly ugly. I also
remember that at least one year group got a second selection board (a
pretty rare occurence).

The funny thing was that by late '78 they were recalling Reservists to
fill mostly (but not exclusively) Training Command slots. They in '81
they had enough warm bodies to screw the guys they recalled. :-(

Like I say, Navy personnel management sometimes leave a lot to be
desired.

Bill Kambic
Haras Lucero, Kingston, TN
Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

they would have gotten at least a good dose of the "Every Marine is a rifleman!" USMC ethos in Corps OCS, if not four years of it in NROTC.

Not sure, but I think all USMC officer flight students went through The Basic School (TBS) at Quantico before heading down to Pensacola. Makes sense, since if one could not get passed TBS, there was not point in throwing good $$ after bad.

As has been said well by others, the Senate may make one a Second Lieutenant, but only TBS will make one an officer of Marines.

--
Mike Kanze

"There's a fine line between evil and underpaid."

- Carol The Secretary, Dilbert (1/14/2007)

"Bill Baker" wrote in message ...
On 2007-01-19 08:34:22 -0800, Ed Rasimus said:

[...]
Although the USAF didn't have truly "excess" capability, they could
absorb a bit of the load for the Navy. We took one USMC student per
class (8 classes per year) per base (10 bases). The Marines went
through the full and complete USAF UPT syllabus (T-41/T-37/T-38) and
upon graduation were awarded USAF pilot wings.

[...]

A number of these Navy pilot candidates were given the opportunity for
inter-service transfers and were picked up by the USAF where they
completed UPT.

Given the numbers you say the Navy cut, at least some of the pilots
given the chop must have been Marine sticks, right Ed? Which means,
presumably, that before UPT they would have gotten at least a good dose
of the "Every Marine is a rifleman!" USMC ethos in Corps OCS, if not
four years of it in NROTC. Must have been an interesting for these
guys to find themselves abruptly in the Air Force. I'm imagining a
freshly-winged butter bar in USAF dress blues except with a high 'n
tight, blood stripe on the trousers and a boarding sabre on his hip.


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John wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 22:25:51 -0500, vincent p. norris
wrote:


The got gold wings wihout CQing?


Absolutely! Anyone who completes the Naval Aviation Training Command
syllabus for their pipeline gets gold wings, regardless of whether
they carrier qualified or not. The best example is the prop pipline
which ceased CARQUALing all SNA's in the mid-70's. Only those with
orders to the E-2/C-2 go through the CARQUAL syllabus.

The better answer for the original post is that it is probaby
astronaut wings. I believe there is one USMC flag office that was on a
shuttle team. Don't recall who or whether they were pilot or mission
specialist.

USN Astronaut wings are gold and the center device could look like a
star with the right lighting and camera angle.

John Alger USN(ret)
1972-1997 // 1310,1320
TA-4J, A-7E, EC-130Q, P-3B


The Jan 2006 issue of All Hands magazine list all the badges/pins.
The OP might look here and see if he recognizes the one he is
referencing. Link below (requires Adobe reader).

http://www.news.navy.mil/media/allha...t/ah200601.pdf

Byron

The funny thing was that by late '78 they were recalling Reservists to
fill mostly (but not exclusively) Training Command slots. They in '81
they had enough warm bodies to screw the guys they recalled. :-(

Like I say, Navy personnel management sometimes leave a lot to be
desired.

When I got to Corpus Christi for Advanced Training (summer or fall of
'50), a bunch of Naval Aviator retreads were moving into the BOQ. They
told us they were a reserve squadron recalled to active duty for the
Korean war.

Some had sad tales of what it had cost them. One guy had just
finished law school but was forced to miss the bar exam. Another had
to sell a business he had just started.

That would have been acceptable, had they really been needed; but
before the week was out, they were told they weren't needed after all,
and could go back home.

vince norris

Mike Kanze wrote:
one Black Friday they went into Pensacola and cut more than 400 students in training.

I remember this too. I had just finished BJN School at NAS Glynco, after having been offered a switch from RIO School (I was 3 weeks into the RIO pipeline) because "the Navy desperately needed A-6 B/Ns."

You can guess the rest. No one in our BJN class got any A-6 RAG orders, and there were no impending inputs into the A-3 or RA-5C RAGs (the two other outlets at that time for BJN grads). My entire class was SERGRADed.

When I got my wings along with about 15 others in Beeville(first 2
weeks of June, 1974) we were the first nuggets to get fleet orders for
a long time(maybe a year or more?) 2 F-4 seats( I got one-other Mike
Price), some A-7 seats, couple of A-6..more than a few A-4..Not enough
nuggets to fill all the rquirments but they wouldn't let any Sergrads
take the excess.



I felt sorry for myself, but not for long once the word got out about the Big Attrite. At least I had wings, a DIFOT billet at VT-7 / NAS Meridian, and a deferred shot at the bird (A-6) and coast (west) of my choice. It all worked out OK, except my 18 months at NMM were the longest 3 years of my life.

--
Mike Kanze

"There's a fine line between evil and underpaid."

- Carol The Secretary, Dilbert (1/14/2007)

wrote in message ...
On Fri, 19 Jan 2007 16:34:22 GMT, Ed Rasimus
wrote:

snipped for brevity

As a follow-on, at the wind-down of the war, requirements were
drastically reduced (late 1970) and while USAF chose to cut the
training pipeline at the acquisition point--reduce recruiting for
pilot slots, the Navy opted to cut immediately across the board. On
one Black Friday they went into Pensacola and cut more than 400
students in training. Several were within weeks of graduation.

I remember this. I was in Pensacola with a CQ det from VS-30 (the S-2
RAG) the next week. I had a cousin about to graduate from AOC and he
got RIFed. He told me that they just went in and cut the bottom 50%
of each class. He was awaiting his discharge.

You could pick up REAL good deals on "muscle cars" as the BOQ parking
lot looked like a used car lot for all the "for sale" signs.

Navy personnel management practices are not always "top drawer." :-(

Bill Kambic
Haras Lucero, Kingston, TN
Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão
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DIVFONT face=Arial>one Black Friday they went into Pensacola and cut more
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DIVFONT face=Arial/FONT /DIV
DIVFONT face=ArialI remember this too. I had just finished BJN School at NAS
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DIVFONT face=Arial/FONT /DIV
DIVFONT face=ArialYou can guess the rest. No one in our BJN class got
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DIVFONT face=Arial/FONT /DIV
DIVFONT face=ArialI felt sorry for myself, but not for long once the word
got out about the Big Attrite. At least I had wings, a DIFOT billet at VT-7 /
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qui si parla Campagnolo wrote

Mike Kanze wrote:
My entire class was SERGRADed.

When I got my wings along with about 15 others in Beeville(first 2
weeks of June, 1974) we were the first nuggets to get fleet orders for
a long time(maybe a year or more?) 2 F-4 seats( I got one-other Mike
Price), some A-7 seats, couple of A-6..more than a few A-4..Not enough
nuggets to fill all the rquirments but they wouldn't let any Sergrads
take the excess.

What's SERGRADed?

Bob Moore
Pensacola Class 12-58

On 21 Jan 2007 15:27:39 GMT, Bob Moore
wrote:

qui si parla Campagnolo wrote

Mike Kanze wrote:
My entire class was SERGRADed.

When I got my wings along with about 15 others in Beeville(first 2
weeks of June, 1974) we were the first nuggets to get fleet orders for
a long time(maybe a year or more?) 2 F-4 seats( I got one-other Mike
Price), some A-7 seats, couple of A-6..more than a few A-4..Not enough
nuggets to fill all the rquirments but they wouldn't let any Sergrads
take the excess.

What's SERGRADed?

SElective Retained GRADuate. Newly winged guys plowed back as
instructors.

Bill Kambic
Haras Lucero, Kingston, TN
Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

Bill Kambic wrote
SElective Retained GRADuate. Newly winged guys plowed back as
instructors.

Thanks Bill

Bob

On 21 Jan 2007 16:00:44 GMT, Bob Moore
wrote:

Bill Kambic wrote
SElective Retained GRADuate. Newly winged guys plowed back as
instructors.

Thanks Bill

De nada!!!

Bill Kambic
Haras Lucero, Kingston, TN
Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 10:54:10 -0500, wrote:

On 21 Jan 2007 15:27:39 GMT, Bob Moore
wrote:

qui si parla Campagnolo wrote

Mike Kanze wrote:
My entire class was SERGRADed.

When I got my wings along with about 15 others in Beeville(first 2
weeks of June, 1974) we were the first nuggets to get fleet orders for
a long time(maybe a year or more?) 2 F-4 seats( I got one-other Mike
Price), some A-7 seats, couple of A-6..more than a few A-4..Not enough
nuggets to fill all the rquirments but they wouldn't let any Sergrads
take the excess.

What's SERGRADed?

SElective Retained GRADuate. Newly winged guys plowed back as
instructors.

That's what we in the junior service call a FAIP--First Assignment IP.

It was a result of the rather extensive draw-down of pilot
requirements at the end of the SEA conflict. In USAF, the agreement
was that each major air command would take UPT graduates in proportion
to the number of line pilot slots they had. So, Training Command with
28% of the AF pilots at that time had to take a quarter of the
graduates.

There was a lot of emotional argument about quality, but it really
turns out that the job is so rote that a brand-new grad can be pretty
good at it. The only thing missing is the intimidation factor that is
the basic stock-in-trade of the military flight instructor. The three
tool of the IP: fear, sarcasm and ridicule.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com