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#1
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Briefing an approach plate, especially while flying
My approach plate briefing, especially while flying, could use some
improvement. I received my instrument rating last March and have about 75 hours of actual IMC time since then, but I honestly feel my briefing of the chart is not as thorough as it must be for optimum situational awareness. I am not just referring to frequencies and approach minimums, but rather the plethora of other information, such as highest nearby obstacle, minimum safe altitude, maximum safe distance ring, etc. Although I try to brief an approach during the lower workload of cruise flight, I discovered that I am still missing some pertinent information. Perhaps I should consider designing a checklist of sorts, but in the mean time I am curious what tips the more seasoned instrument pilots have to offer. Oh, worth mentioning is that I use Jeppesen's approach plates and I do fly in an aircraft equipped with a dual axis AP. -- Peter ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
#2
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You are cluttering your mind with unnecessary data. If you fly at an
assigned altitude or the altitude shown on the plate for a black line, you can forget about the MSA (which is not an operational altitude), the highest obstacle, and maximum safe distance...whatever that is. Frequencies, courses, altitudes, and the miss procedure are enough. Bob Gardner "Peter R." wrote in message ... My approach plate briefing, especially while flying, could use some improvement. I received my instrument rating last March and have about 75 hours of actual IMC time since then, but I honestly feel my briefing of the chart is not as thorough as it must be for optimum situational awareness. I am not just referring to frequencies and approach minimums, but rather the plethora of other information, such as highest nearby obstacle, minimum safe altitude, maximum safe distance ring, etc. Although I try to brief an approach during the lower workload of cruise flight, I discovered that I am still missing some pertinent information. Perhaps I should consider designing a checklist of sorts, but in the mean time I am curious what tips the more seasoned instrument pilots have to offer. Oh, worth mentioning is that I use Jeppesen's approach plates and I do fly in an aircraft equipped with a dual axis AP. -- Peter ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
#3
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Doesn't hurt to look real quick at the MSA rings just to get a real rough idea
of the underlying terrain. KIPT, for instance has a mountain just to the left of the localizer, and I think you'd want to know that is there if you can't see it. No need to memorize the heights, jsut a rough mental sketch of the minimum safe altitudes is enough. Why? well if something goes wrong at least you know which way not to turn... Bob Gardner wrote: You are cluttering your mind with unnecessary data. If you fly at an assigned altitude or the altitude shown on the plate for a black line, you can forget about the MSA (which is not an operational altitude), the highest obstacle, and maximum safe distance...whatever that is. Frequencies, courses, altitudes, and the miss procedure are enough. Bob Gardner "Peter R." wrote in message ... My approach plate briefing, especially while flying, could use some improvement. I received my instrument rating last March and have about 75 hours of actual IMC time since then, but I honestly feel my briefing of the chart is not as thorough as it must be for optimum situational awareness. I am not just referring to frequencies and approach minimums, but rather the plethora of other information, such as highest nearby obstacle, minimum safe altitude, maximum safe distance ring, etc. Although I try to brief an approach during the lower workload of cruise flight, I discovered that I am still missing some pertinent information. Perhaps I should consider designing a checklist of sorts, but in the mean time I am curious what tips the more seasoned instrument pilots have to offer. Oh, worth mentioning is that I use Jeppesen's approach plates and I do fly in an aircraft equipped with a dual axis AP. -- Peter ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- -- --Ray Andraka, P.E. President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc. 401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950 http://www.andraka.com "They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, 1759 |
#4
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Is that 75 hours of actual or 75 hours of IFR flying? 75 hours of actual is
a lot in a year. Just curious. "Peter R." wrote in message ... My approach plate briefing, especially while flying, could use some improvement. I received my instrument rating last March and have about 75 hours of actual IMC time since then, but I honestly feel my briefing of the chart is not as thorough as it must be for optimum situational awareness. I am not just referring to frequencies and approach minimums, but rather the plethora of other information, such as highest nearby obstacle, minimum safe altitude, maximum safe distance ring, etc. Although I try to brief an approach during the lower workload of cruise flight, I discovered that I am still missing some pertinent information. Perhaps I should consider designing a checklist of sorts, but in the mean time I am curious what tips the more seasoned instrument pilots have to offer. Oh, worth mentioning is that I use Jeppesen's approach plates and I do fly in an aircraft equipped with a dual axis AP. -- Peter ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
#5
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Peter MacPherson ) wrote:
Is that 75 hours of actual or 75 hours of IFR flying? 75 hours of actual is a lot in a year. Just curious. 75 actual. About 20 of those I received during instrument training last winter. I fly mainly in the Northeast US and am based at an airport downwind of Lake Ontario. LO throws off a lot of moisture. In the summer we have many days of low clouds and rain and in the winter we have many days of low clouds and lake effect snow events. Most of the remaining IMC hours I accumulated by flying missions for Angel Flight Northeast. IMO, flying for AF is an excellent way to develop and retain proficiency, as it offers mission-oriented flying that must be given a lot of thought before canceling flights, unlike a typical $100 hamburger run. -- Peter ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
#6
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Peter, out of curiosity, what percentage of your total time since you got your rating
are in actual IMC? I'm based in the Northeast as well (KPVD), also fly for Angel Flight when I can get away from work. Without looking at my logbook, I'd guess that about 10% of my time is in actual. More often than not I only in get a couple of tenths of actual in a flight. If the weather is low, the tops are usually also low and at 6000' you often wind up on top or between layers. If you are flying 750 hours a year or so, I am truely envious. Could be a difference in what you log as actual. I only log actual for the time when I am in IMC, not on top or between layers with good visibility. "Peter R." wrote: Peter MacPherson ) wrote: Is that 75 hours of actual or 75 hours of IFR flying? 75 hours of actual is a lot in a year. Just curious. 75 actual. About 20 of those I received during instrument training last winter. I fly mainly in the Northeast US and am based at an airport downwind of Lake Ontario. LO throws off a lot of moisture. In the summer we have many days of low clouds and rain and in the winter we have many days of low clouds and lake effect snow events. Most of the remaining IMC hours I accumulated by flying missions for Angel Flight Northeast. IMO, flying for AF is an excellent way to develop and retain proficiency, as it offers mission-oriented flying that must be given a lot of thought before canceling flights, unlike a typical $100 hamburger run. -- Peter ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- -- --Ray Andraka, P.E. President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc. 401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950 http://www.andraka.com "They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, 1759 |
#7
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This is not a matter of regulation, of course, and it is not covered in the
AIM...more of a personal preference thing, unless there is a company SOP requiring it. I won't pretend that I have thousands of hours flying jets, but I do have hundreds, and I was never taught to brief those items nor were they included in company SOPs...and we were moving fast enough to make mistakes very costly. Bob Gardner "Ray Andraka" wrote in message ... Doesn't hurt to look real quick at the MSA rings just to get a real rough idea of the underlying terrain. KIPT, for instance has a mountain just to the left of the localizer, and I think you'd want to know that is there if you can't see it. No need to memorize the heights, jsut a rough mental sketch of the minimum safe altitudes is enough. Why? well if something goes wrong at least you know which way not to turn... Bob Gardner wrote: You are cluttering your mind with unnecessary data. If you fly at an assigned altitude or the altitude shown on the plate for a black line, you can forget about the MSA (which is not an operational altitude), the highest obstacle, and maximum safe distance...whatever that is. Frequencies, courses, altitudes, and the miss procedure are enough. Bob Gardner "Peter R." wrote in message ... My approach plate briefing, especially while flying, could use some improvement. I received my instrument rating last March and have about 75 hours of actual IMC time since then, but I honestly feel my briefing of the chart is not as thorough as it must be for optimum situational awareness. I am not just referring to frequencies and approach minimums, but rather the plethora of other information, such as highest nearby obstacle, minimum safe altitude, maximum safe distance ring, etc. Although I try to brief an approach during the lower workload of cruise flight, I discovered that I am still missing some pertinent information. Perhaps I should consider designing a checklist of sorts, but in the mean time I am curious what tips the more seasoned instrument pilots have to offer. Oh, worth mentioning is that I use Jeppesen's approach plates and I do fly in an aircraft equipped with a dual axis AP. -- Peter ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- -- --Ray Andraka, P.E. President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc. 401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950 http://www.andraka.com "They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, 1759 |
#8
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Peter R. wrote
Most of the remaining IMC hours I accumulated by flying missions for Angel Flight Northeast. IMO, flying for AF is an excellent way to develop and retain proficiency, as it offers mission-oriented flying that must be given a lot of thought before canceling flights, unlike a typical $100 hamburger run. I absolutely agree. In fact, most of my IMC time was accumulated flying for Angel Flight South Central. But I still can't understand how you managed to rack up so much IMC time. It took me about 3 years to rack up 75 hours of actual IMC, and I've been known to actively seek it out. In any case - to answer your original question, I think you're briefing too much stuff. When I brief an approach, I brief only the FAC, MDA/DH, the MAP, the first segment of the miss, and anything really special about the approach. I will also brief the circling procedure/runway alignment if applicable. IMO the only really critical part of the approach is the bottom 1000 ft or so. That's where you have to make a snap decision about having the necessary visual cues, and then quite possibly fly to the runway using a blend of visual and instrument references. There's a big difference between remaining in the protected airspace and actually being able to land, so precise flying is at a premium. In a light airplane, almost any mistake can be fixed if you are at or above 1000 ft AGL. Unless you've actually pegged the needle(s), you can sort it out. Therefore, I only brief the stuff prior to the FAF and after the first segment of the miss in a general way, for familiarity. I don't think it's any big deal to glance at the plate if I forget a heading or an altitude. After the FAF is crossed, I don't look at the plate anymore. I'm dividing attention between keeping needles centered and looking outside. If I've decided to miss, I've briefed the first segment (what heading do I fly) and I start my climb (and turn if applicable) - then I look at the plate. After all, precision isn't as important anymore, and as long as I stay in the protected airspace I'm OK. The bottom line is that you only need a very few memory items, and trying to retain too many will only hurt you. Don't try to remember anything unless you are going to need it between crossing the FAF and starting the climb on the miss. Michael |
#9
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Many charts say ADF required or DME required. This is sometimes
overlooked until the last minute. This may sound obvious, but make sure that you are briefing the correct chart. Around here we have many ILS Rwy 24, and I have had students confuse one with another. Ray Andraka wrote in message ... Doesn't hurt to look real quick at the MSA rings just to get a real rough idea of the underlying terrain. KIPT, for instance has a mountain just to the left of the localizer, and I think you'd want to know that is there if you can't see it. No need to memorize the heights, jsut a rough mental sketch of the minimum safe altitudes is enough. Why? well if something goes wrong at least you know which way not to turn... Bob Gardner wrote: You are cluttering your mind with unnecessary data. If you fly at an assigned altitude or the altitude shown on the plate for a black line, you can forget about the MSA (which is not an operational altitude), the highest obstacle, and maximum safe distance...whatever that is. Frequencies, courses, altitudes, and the miss procedure are enough. Bob Gardner "Peter R." wrote in message ... My approach plate briefing, especially while flying, could use some improvement. I received my instrument rating last March and have about 75 hours of actual IMC time since then, but I honestly feel my briefing of the chart is not as thorough as it must be for optimum situational awareness. I am not just referring to frequencies and approach minimums, but rather the plethora of other information, such as highest nearby obstacle, minimum safe altitude, maximum safe distance ring, etc. Although I try to brief an approach during the lower workload of cruise flight, I discovered that I am still missing some pertinent information. Perhaps I should consider designing a checklist of sorts, but in the mean time I am curious what tips the more seasoned instrument pilots have to offer. Oh, worth mentioning is that I use Jeppesen's approach plates and I do fly in an aircraft equipped with a dual axis AP. -- Peter ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- -- --Ray Andraka, P.E. President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc. 401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950 http://www.andraka.com "They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, 1759 |
#10
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Ray Andraka wrote:
Peter, out of curiosity, what percentage of your total time since you got your rating are in actual IMC? First of all, my sincerest apologies for making any kind of claim, as Usenet claims are almost always laughed off by the reader. I certainly did not expect to have this thread drift off topic into how many actual instrument hours we all have, nor for it to become a "mine is bigger than yours" contest. Looking back at my logbook (which I recently converted to Logbook Pro), it appears that I am running around 15% actual IMC to total time. Since starting my instrument rating in October 2002, I have since logged about 470 total hours. I'm based in the Northeast as well (KPVD), also fly for Angel Flight when I can get away from work. How do Providence's winters compare to Syracuse, NYs? I sincerely do not know, other than to say that if your winters are a lot like Hartford, CT's (where I lived one year several years ago), then you must have more sunshine. According to my logbook, I flew 25 Angel Flights (around 140 hours) since starting with them last May. BTW, this was for both AF Northeast out of Lawrence, Mass, and AF East out of Philadelphia. Without looking at my logbook, I'd guess that about 10% of my time is in actual. Then you and I are pretty close. More often than not I only in get a couple of tenths of actual in a flight. If the weather is low, the tops are usually also low and at 6000' you often wind up on top or between layers. What do you fly? I suspect that this may explain the difference between us. I flew all of those hours in a C172. Low, slow, and slow to climb. This week I received my complex, high performance endorsement for a V35 Bonanza so I now understand the difference climbing at 1,100 feet per minute makes at blasting through the layers. I also realize that I will not log nearly as many hours in this aircraft in the upcoming year, due to the performance differences between this aircraft and the C172. If you are flying 750 hours a year or so, I am truely envious. Could be a difference in what you log as actual. I only log actual for the time when I am in IMC, not on top or between layers with good visibility. Please. After reading these groups for the last three years, I am very comfortable with what constitutes actual time. I only log actual hours in terms of when I need instruments to fly. I do not log VMC while on an IFR flight plan as actual instrument time. -- Peter ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
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