VFR Flight Following -- What's going on here?

"Chip Jones" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
nk.net...


[snipped] how is he supposed to get that notification to the controller?



Key up on the frequency in question with an "Attention any aircraft this
frequency, this is Piper 56993, apparently I've lost comm with the Center,
could you relay a message to ATC for me?"


And if that doesn't work? (My Risk Management training coming to the fore).


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

Matt Barrow wrote:

"Chip Jones" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
link.net...


[snipped] how is he supposed to get that notification to the controller?



Key up on the frequency in question with an "Attention any aircraft this
frequency, this is Piper 56993, apparently I've lost comm with the Center,
could you relay a message to ATC for me?"



And if that doesn't work? (My Risk Management training coming to the fore).

Then crash and set off the ELT. We will find you.

"Chip Jones" wrote in message
ink.net...

Key up on the frequency in question with an "Attention any aircraft this
frequency, this is Piper 56993, apparently I've lost comm with the Center,
could you relay a message to ATC for me?"


And when nobody answers? This was in the wee hours.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Chip Jones" wrote in message
ink.net...

Key up on the frequency in question with an "Attention any aircraft this
frequency, this is Piper 56993, apparently I've lost comm with the
Center,
could you relay a message to ATC for me?"


And when nobody answers? This was in the wee hours.


You should be phrasing your question: "if" nobody answers, not "when"
nobody answers. The wee hours around ATL and ZTL finds aircraft on
frequency all night. I imagine ZAU and C90 have about the same traffic
around the clock these days. Even Sunday night/ Monday wee early morning
has some traffic on the freq almost every minute.

If in the very unlikely event that the ATC freq is somehow devoid of air
traffic, then try it again on Guard.

Chip, ZTL

On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 10:08:03 -0700, "Bob Gardner"
wrote:

The controller had every right to expect notification of some kind that you
were no longer on frequency.

They already told the controller they were going off-freq: " As we
approached Rantoul, we had to divert around a cell. At that point I
told Center I needed to leave the frequency to check with Flight
Watch, which was approved."

Many times I have been specifically asked to report altitude changes
when in the system for flight following. Even if they don't, I still
report my altitude changes.

My feeling is that if you are assigned a squwak code you should
check out with them at some point. The advice about passing the
info along to Flight Service will cover all the bases if you lose
communications.

Jay Honeck wrote:

Now that I think about it, I suppose we could have asked Flight Watch
to notify Chicago Center when we could no longer hear them, but frankly
it never dawned on me that Chicago really cared that much about what
happened outside of their Class B airspace.

First, Chicago Center doesn't give a crap what happens in the Chicago
Class B.

I've had radar facilities chase me down after I've lost comms with them
during VFR FF. They want to make sure they didn't lose you and
something bad happened to you (like you crashed). Just consider it
an extra service.

Now that I think about it, I suppose we could have asked Flight Watch
to notify Chicago Center when we could no longer hear them, but frankly
it never dawned on me that Chicago really cared that much about what
happened outside of their Class B airspace.

First, Chicago Center doesn't give a crap what happens in the Chicago
Class B.

Ah, true enough. I have mistakenly been using the terms "Approach" and
"Center" interchangeably in this thread.

"Chicago Center" is always cooperative and helpful, and will
unfailingly provide flight following all the way to Iowa City (if
we're high enough, which we rarely are) if requested.

"Chicago Approach" is the ATC facility in question here. They are the
ones who called the Rantoul airport manager, and they are the ones who
usually will not provide VFR flight following.

Which is why I was (and am) so surprised that they actually took the
time to call Rantoul when we lost radio contact with them. They are
usually not so helpful.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City

The way the SAR system works is that once the FAA has radar contact with
you and are providing radar services, they will continue to do so unless
they are unable (due to lack of radar coverage) or you cancel them. If
you fall below their radar coverage while utilizing their services, then
they begin the SAR process. It goes something like this:

1) They attempt to establish radio contact.
2) They contact the FSS and the FAA issues an INREQ
3) After 15/30 mins (my memory fails me as to which # that is), an ALNOT
is issued. At this time, the FAA starts calling around to airports and
doing ramp checks. They also (if a flight plan was entered into the
system) will start making calls to the locations listed in your flight plan.
4) If you still cannot be located, SAR agencies, such as the Civil Air
Patrol, Sheriff's Office SAR teams, etc are activated. The process goes
on from there.

You got caught in Step 3, for which they're actually glad to catch you,
even if they don't always sound it. It's much better than the alternative.

Chris


Jay Honeck wrote:
Now that I think about it, I suppose we could have asked Flight Watch
to notify Chicago Center when we could no longer hear them, but frankly
it never dawned on me that Chicago really cared that much about what
happened outside of their Class B airspace.


First, Chicago Center doesn't give a crap what happens in the Chicago
Class B.


Ah, true enough. I have mistakenly been using the terms "Approach" and
"Center" interchangeably in this thread.

"Chicago Center" is always cooperative and helpful, and will
unfailingly provide flight following all the way to Iowa City (if
we're high enough, which we rarely are) if requested.

"Chicago Approach" is the ATC facility in question here. They are the
ones who called the Rantoul airport manager, and they are the ones who
usually will not provide VFR flight following.

Which is why I was (and am) so surprised that they actually took the
time to call Rantoul when we lost radio contact with them. They are
usually not so helpful.

"Chris G." nospam@noemail wrote in message
eenews.net...
The way the SAR system works is that once the FAA has radar contact with
you and are providing radar services, they will continue to do so unless
they are unable (due to lack of radar coverage) or you cancel them. If
you fall below their radar coverage while utilizing their services, then
they begin the SAR process.

I have never seen any documentation of this claim, for VFR aircraft. My
understanding is that the scenario in this thread was motivated solely at
the discretion of the controller, that there is no automatic search and
rescue for abnormally terminated flight following, and that only a VFR
flight plan guarantees a search and rescue attempt for missing VFR flights.

Can you provide a reference to something that supports the idea that
airplanes getting VFR flight following are given automatic search and rescue
if they somehow are "lost" from the controller (either radio or radar
contact lost)?

Thanks,
Pete